9 ms·

Consider Renaming Gimp to a Less Offensive Name

25 points by jordigh 7y ago

watertom 7y ago
I'm not a very sensitive or "PC" person but the name has always bothered me, so much so that I won't use it or recommend it anyone only because of the name.
nutcracker46 7y ago
"Bring out the gimp."
mkr-hn 7y ago
The name isn't even good before considering the word's meaning.
Causality1 7y ago
>The most modern and often used version of the word "gimp" is an ableist insult. Untrue. The most common usage is as an adjective/verb that has nothing to do with disabled people. "Switching from C to Java really gimped our performance." "Our marketing in Mexico is gimped because we didn't hire a native Spanish speaker." Also this is pretty rich coming from GNOME, considering that's used as an insulting name for little person.
- CydeWeys 7y ago
  That's the same usage, which is offensive for exactly the same reason.
- smt88 7y ago
  > really gimped our performance I'm a native English speaker in the US and have never heard or read "gimp" used as an adjective this way. Never. I have heard it used as a slur against people with disabilities many times, in real life, movies, and books. Even the usage you're claiming is the most common sounds like it's a synonym for "cripple". The entire etymology for the word "gimp" supports that it was conceived originally as a slur and continues to be used that way. https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/gimp https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/gimp Either way, why would anyone want to download something with that name? It's embarrassing to recommend it to people.
  - flukus 7y ago
    > really gimped our performance It's used that way in Australia, the only time in my life I've heard gimp used in a derogatory way was in pulp fiction. But this illustrates a big problem with all these PC crusades lately, they're trying to apply US (at least parts of the US) cultural norms to international projects, often at the expense of alienating most of the world.
    - leolambda 7y ago
      > PC crusades It's not a "crusade" in any sense. It's one issue on a GitLab that someone decided to link over here (not one of the people who made the issue, I think). It is about "political correctness" only in that it's genuinely hard to get some people to even consider using this free software because, and ONLY because, of its name. I think you should rethink your idea of a crusade if you think this is what that word means.
      - flukus 7y ago
        This is hardly an isolated event, it's not just a single issue on a single project. > It is about "political correctness" only in that it's genuinely hard to get some people to even consider using this free software because, and ONLY because, of its name. People that vain will find something else to dislike about it.
        leolambda 7y ago
        > This is hardly an isolated event, it's not just a single issue on a single project. It's... what, part of a grand conspiracy to destroy open source, somehow? Give me a break.
        flukus 7y ago
        Where did I say anything about a conspiracy or someone trying to destroy open source? The crusade is to shame people into not using language that a minority of the world deems inappropriate, it's not confined to open source. It's definitely not a conspiracy, the people that push things like this onto other people are obnoxiously open and loud about it.
godzillabrennus 7y ago
This shouldn’t even be a debate. The name is horrible in every sense that matters to gaining adoption.
- CydeWeys 7y ago
  Seriously. Even a super generic name like "GPaint" would be a huge improvement. Some parts of the Free Software world are run by programmers and programmers only and it shows. It would benefit to listen to a marketing person every once in awhile.
  - nhumrich 7y ago
    To be fair, it's open source software that makes the maintainers of it $0 of profit. Its closer to a form of art than it is a product. It might just be they don't actually care to gain adoption or "win the market".
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - CydeWeys 7y ago
      As someone who's written and released his own Free Software, I have to say, I at least definitely cared about getting users. Most of the fun is in your product actually being used, not just it being out there. I never did anything remotely as important as Gimp, but if someone had come along and offered some simple services like "Let me design a cool logo for your project" I'd have jumped at the chance. I can't imagine Gimp hasn't had similar opportunities.
    - godzillabrennus 7y ago
      If they want to charge consulting rates or if they want to get a job somewhere maintaining it full time, then adoption matters.
  - eitland 7y ago
    > It would benefit to listen to a marketing person every once in awhile. At the moment I can only remember things getting worse because of marketing people. Same goes for most ux.
kakkun 7y ago
Yeah, I definitely ran into issues when Googling to see whether I could use LaTeX within GIMP.
- nhumrich 7y ago
  Interestingly enough, duck duck go does way better at that search term than google does
nhumrich 7y ago
While I don't disagree with the people wanting to change the name here, I cant help but realize that they are essentially bullying the maintainers. The maintainers are people who spend their free time to work on a project they never get paid for. Sure its a project we all seem to use, but it's also their project. I don't feel like its anyones place to force them into something they dont want to do. The thread started civil but then turned into cyber bullying. Funny how those trying to "prevent bullying" are the very ones doing it.
- mntmoss 7y ago
  This is the way with any issue of public importance, which, as a capital-F Free Software project with a lengthy history and many contributors, GIMP has grown into. The software's functionality is commendable, and they have made some strides on UX as well. That makes it worth recommending, but for the parts that hold it back, of which the name is increasingly a major one. When these issues come up, and there is a perception of gatekeeping behavior, protest is normal. The developers hold the power here. And developer arguments to avoid popular change tend to become more incoherent as the popularity of the software grows, because it positions them as both serving a popular interest(lots of users, open development) and not(private whims trumping popular ones). Developers on prominent products with many users generally are not following their fancy anymore; they are making their career. If they want to sully their career, dying on this hill is a way to do it.
  - skybrian 7y ago
    Seems like at that point volunteering is no longer fun, and if you want people to put up with it, you need to pay them.
  - _dps 7y ago
    > The developers hold the power here. They do not, this is exactly the point of free software. Anyone can fork it and release their fork under a different name. Don't want to do that work? Too bad. Want to force the developers to do it? Now which party is attempting to exercise power? The only thing the developers are doing is refusing to modify their free gift to the community to line up with other people's non-technical priorities. This is not an exercise of power — is it simply reminding people that free software contributors are not indentured servants.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
siphon22 7y ago
Wonder how many people who are up in arms about the name actually use GIMP? And how many of those are willing to monetarily compensate them for the lost recognition in the event they do change their name and are forced to start from scratch? It is strange that the title words it as "Gimp" when GIMP has always been "GIMP", which has a very specific meaning(it stands for GNU Image Manipulation Program) that has nothing to do with the word "gimp". I've used GIMP since I was in middle school and I have never ever known that it was a homophone for the more offensive term. I grew up in California and also never heard anyone use this term as an insult to anyone. Do non-American/English speaking GIMP users not have a say in this? Why do they have to have their GIMP become something else just because it happens to sound like a bad word in some other language? It'll be a huge shame if they go through with this, but even if it does, I will always refer to their work as GIMP, the GNU Image Manipulation Program.
- leolambda 7y ago
  > Wonder how many people who are up in arms about the name actually use GIMP? I, for one, use it every day. Have you taken a look at the discussion? Your questions are pretty thoroughly addressed, which, along with your final line here, make me think you're more interested in your desire to use ableist slurs and the holy right of software maintainers to ignore any and all criticism without consequences than anything else. Let us be clear: Nobody in this issue thread cares _at all_ about whether it was "meant" to convey the same meaning as the word "gimp". It is factually true that people find it awkward to recommend in professional settings because of its name, and sometimes the name makes adoption impossible. Obviously nobody can force the maintainers to do anything, but we can _ask_ them to change a superficial component of their excellent software to make it much more useful, which is what this issue was.
  - siphon22 7y ago
    For the vast majority of the non-English world, GIMP means nothing except what it stands for, and the same goes for me. You have to note, "gimp" and "GIMP" mean completely different things.
GiorgioG 7y ago
Here's an idea: Why doesn't this guy (and anyone that agrees with him) spend 23 years building his own graphics editor, naming it whatever he likes?
- siphon22 7y ago
  GIMP is free software, so maybe they can just fork it and rename it :P
  - leolambda 7y ago
    The GIMP project has purposely made it difficult to rename; patches making it easier to rename have been categorically rejected by the maintainers. So, yes, people are currently talking about forking it.
    - siphon22 7y ago
      They should do that, instead of destroying over 20 years of work to make their name. Let's see in the end which program will prosper.
      - leolambda 7y ago
        > destroying over 20 years of work to make their name. Oh right. I forgot filing an issue presenting a calm and reasoned argument for changing one string of text to another was the same as "destroying" a project.
        siphon22 7y ago
        Snark is not acceptable on HN. And yes, making an established project change their name is destroying everything they had done for it under that name. They will have to start over from scratch and it will take years to reach the same level of name recognition.
        7y ago
dngray 7y ago
without naming names I see a lot of SJW in that issue without very many commits/participation in the open source community. Also the maintainers gave their reply as it is their prerogative to do so. > Michael Natterer @mitch · 5 hours ago Maintainer > Sorry, the name will not change, closing. Michael Natterer @mitch closed 5 hours ago So JordiGH, you needn't re-open the issue https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gimp/issues/3618 https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gimp/issues/3618 and post to HN with the hopes of generating outrage against the GIMP project for not doing what you want.
- leolambda 7y ago
  I have to agree. Please, everyone, if you're going to engage with this, look at https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gimp/issues/3617 https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gimp/issues/3617 and the discussion (and lack thereof) there. As someone who likes to think that I do have as many "commits/participation" as many others, I would appreciate it if people would focus on the core argument: It is hard to get people to use this software, who would otherwise benefit, because of their perception of the name, and it's easier to change the name once than change those perceptions every single time. If you have problems with THAT, I'd love to discuss them, but please leave "SJWism" and whatever out of it - that's not really what's at issue here.
  - dngray 7y ago
    > As someone who likes to think that I do have as many "commits/participation" as many others, I would appreciate it if people would focus on the core argument The reason this is important is because in recent times essentially nobodies like to pop out of the woodwork with "ideas" like this. They then like to "shame" people who don't agree with them. There's nothing wrong with expecting people to build up a reputation before suggesting divisive and controversial ideas.
  - jacobjuul 7y ago
    If you do a google search for GIMP you literally get no references to the slur.
- jordigh 7y ago
writepub 7y ago
There is no grace in sullying innocent people selflessly building a fine free product, while asking nothing in return. The mental gymnastics and energy employed in attributing malice is much better spent in improving the product. Better yet, fork the product, rename it and do with it as you please. The authors are generous enough to allow that.
jacobjuul 7y ago
I don't agree nor disagree since I've never heard that word used for anything else than the software. But by this logic, we should also rename git
- mkr-hn 7y ago
  Git is not without issues, but it's not as bad as this word. There are two common ways to see gimp beyond what its defenders put forward: 1: A kink thing. 2: What the kink is based on: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gimp https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gimp -> https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cripple https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cripple Neither one is great for adoption. >> "I've never heard that word used for anything else than the software." There are a lot of words I didn't know were common slurs, or at least inaccurate or otherwise not okay until someone told me. For example: Eskimo (colonist nonsense), Gypsy (name given to Romani people based on mistaken belief they came from Egypt), Indian (some native people use it, but not all). Learning is great.
reitanqild 7y ago
https://www.gimp.org/docs/userfaq.html#i-dont-like-the-name-gimp-will-you-change-it https://www.gimp.org/docs/userfaq.html#i-dont-like-the-name-... Except for this? By all means consider renaming it. Or keep it to spite everyone who comes from the outside and tries to destroy hacker culture. Because that's what people are doing, destroying hacker culture just like we destroyed other cultures before. Yes, in some cases the new culture is better, but why oh why do we have to destroy everything funny or unusual in the process. This comes from someone who sometimes has to stand up for his group in other settings. Why can't society let us - and the hacker culture - alone as long as we adhere to the laws? If the GIMP won't be a commercial success - fine. Or someone can fork it and package it under another name - fine. Or the maintainers can sell out - or even agree - fine. But can't we stop this war against all forms of old school fun and what should I say - diversity?
- krapp 7y ago
  You claim to want to stop what you see as a war against fun and diversity, after insisting that anyone who doesn't share the same juvenile sense of humor as you, or who disagrees with the name of a software project, must be an outsider trying to destroy hacker culture? So do you want diversity or conformity, then? Stop with the gatekeeping BS, please. You don't get to say what hacker culture is or who belongs in it.
  - effingwewt 7y ago
    There is a huge difference between asking to be left alone amd demanding others conform to something. If they don't like the name they don't have to use the software. Or as GP mentioned they can fork it to rename it whatever they'd like. Times like this I'm reminded of the adage 'Offense is taken not given.'
  - slonewsday 7y ago
    This is fighting cultural imperialism, not "gatekeeping." I also question the intentions of the complainers. These kinds of complaints are usually made by people with little technical skills and barely any contributions to the project. They fabricate controversy in order to gain social media clout, then leverage that for consulting gigs.
ToFab123 7y ago
The snowflake generation do get offended by everything.
- dang 7y ago
  Please don't do this here, even when something seems wrong or annoying. Would you mind reviewing the site guidelines and sticking to them? Their intention is to try to keep this place from degrading so that it can remain interesting for all of us. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - ToFab123 7y ago
    Ok. I understand
slonewsday 7y ago
it's cultural imperialism
gnusty_gnurc 7y ago
This is mentioned in the FAQ and it's exceedingly clear and reasonable: > Finally, if you still have strong feelings about the name “GIMP”, you should feel free to promote the use of the long form GNU Image Manipulation Program or maintain your own releases of the software under a different name. https://www.gimp.org/docs/userfaq.html#i-dont-like-the-name-gimp-will-you-change-it https://www.gimp.org/docs/userfaq.html#i-dont-like-the-name-...
- CydeWeys 7y ago
  Maybe someone should do that, then. I'd be onboard with it. Then I could reference it by a better name and feel more OK with recommending it. The problem is, how many large Linux distros will accept a new package into their package managers that is essentially the exact same thing as an existing package, just with a different name and logo assets? For this to be truly successful, it has to be as easy as `apt-get install gpaint` (insert better name here).
  - gnusty_gnurc 7y ago
    I'm not completely familiar but I get the sense that building a snap package isn't that much of a hurdle if there's such a big need for a renamed fork.
    - CydeWeys 7y ago
      I haven't had great experiences with Snap packages, to be honest. And the fact that they use their own sandboxed filesystem is really inconvenient for an image editing app. I probably won't be installing any more Snap packages.
      - gnusty_gnurc 7y ago
        Ok...then flatpak or appimage...there's a clear omnipresent issue here where people argue over petty issues that fragment and polarize the software ecosystem and it's only worse that resources are heavily constrained and voluntary. I don't mean this to discount your concern, but you're making a strong ask from a community that's based completely on loosely-coordinated voluntary efforts. If you want change - advocacy is not enough and frankly counterproductive. Start solving your problem and paying it forward to the people that you think will benefit.

25 points by jordigh 7y ago

I'm not a very sensitive or "PC" person but the name has always bothered me, so much so that I won't use it or recommend it anyone only because of the name.

nutcracker46 7y ago

"Bring out the gimp."

mkr-hn 7y ago

The name isn't even good before considering the word's meaning.

Causality1 7y ago

>The most modern and often used version of the word "gimp" is an ableist insult. Untrue. The most common usage is as an adjective/verb that has nothing to do with disabled people. "Switching from C to Java really gimped our performance." "Our marketing in Mexico is gimped because we didn't hire a native Spanish speaker." Also this is pretty rich coming from GNOME, considering that's used as an insulting name for little person.

CydeWeys 7y ago
That's the same usage, which is offensive for exactly the same reason.
smt88 7y ago
> really gimped our performance I'm a native English speaker in the US and have never heard or read "gimp" used as an adjective this way. Never. I have heard it used as a slur against people with disabilities many times, in real life, movies, and books. Even the usage you're claiming is the most common sounds like it's a synonym for "cripple". The entire etymology for the word "gimp" supports that it was conceived originally as a slur and continues to be used that way. https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/gimp https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/gimp Either way, why would anyone want to download something with that name? It's embarrassing to recommend it to people.
- flukus 7y ago
  > really gimped our performance It's used that way in Australia, the only time in my life I've heard gimp used in a derogatory way was in pulp fiction. But this illustrates a big problem with all these PC crusades lately, they're trying to apply US (at least parts of the US) cultural norms to international projects, often at the expense of alienating most of the world.
  - leolambda 7y ago
    > PC crusades It's not a "crusade" in any sense. It's one issue on a GitLab that someone decided to link over here (not one of the people who made the issue, I think). It is about "political correctness" only in that it's genuinely hard to get some people to even consider using this free software because, and ONLY because, of its name. I think you should rethink your idea of a crusade if you think this is what that word means.
    - flukus 7y ago
      This is hardly an isolated event, it's not just a single issue on a single project. > It is about "political correctness" only in that it's genuinely hard to get some people to even consider using this free software because, and ONLY because, of its name. People that vain will find something else to dislike about it.
      - leolambda 7y ago
        > This is hardly an isolated event, it's not just a single issue on a single project. It's... what, part of a grand conspiracy to destroy open source, somehow? Give me a break.
        flukus 7y ago
        Where did I say anything about a conspiracy or someone trying to destroy open source? The crusade is to shame people into not using language that a minority of the world deems inappropriate, it's not confined to open source. It's definitely not a conspiracy, the people that push things like this onto other people are obnoxiously open and loud about it.

godzillabrennus 7y ago

This shouldn’t even be a debate. The name is horrible in every sense that matters to gaining adoption.

CydeWeys 7y ago
Seriously. Even a super generic name like "GPaint" would be a huge improvement. Some parts of the Free Software world are run by programmers and programmers only and it shows. It would benefit to listen to a marketing person every once in awhile.
- nhumrich 7y ago
  To be fair, it's open source software that makes the maintainers of it $0 of profit. Its closer to a form of art than it is a product. It might just be they don't actually care to gain adoption or "win the market".
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - CydeWeys 7y ago
    As someone who's written and released his own Free Software, I have to say, I at least definitely cared about getting users. Most of the fun is in your product actually being used, not just it being out there. I never did anything remotely as important as Gimp, but if someone had come along and offered some simple services like "Let me design a cool logo for your project" I'd have jumped at the chance. I can't imagine Gimp hasn't had similar opportunities.
  - godzillabrennus 7y ago
    If they want to charge consulting rates or if they want to get a job somewhere maintaining it full time, then adoption matters.
- eitland 7y ago
  > It would benefit to listen to a marketing person every once in awhile. At the moment I can only remember things getting worse because of marketing people. Same goes for most ux.

kakkun 7y ago

Yeah, I definitely ran into issues when Googling to see whether I could use LaTeX within GIMP.

nhumrich 7y ago
Interestingly enough, duck duck go does way better at that search term than google does

nhumrich 7y ago

While I don't disagree with the people wanting to change the name here, I cant help but realize that they are essentially bullying the maintainers. The maintainers are people who spend their free time to work on a project they never get paid for. Sure its a project we all seem to use, but it's also their project. I don't feel like its anyones place to force them into something they dont want to do. The thread started civil but then turned into cyber bullying. Funny how those trying to "prevent bullying" are the very ones doing it.

mntmoss 7y ago
This is the way with any issue of public importance, which, as a capital-F Free Software project with a lengthy history and many contributors, GIMP has grown into. The software's functionality is commendable, and they have made some strides on UX as well. That makes it worth recommending, but for the parts that hold it back, of which the name is increasingly a major one. When these issues come up, and there is a perception of gatekeeping behavior, protest is normal. The developers hold the power here. And developer arguments to avoid popular change tend to become more incoherent as the popularity of the software grows, because it positions them as both serving a popular interest(lots of users, open development) and not(private whims trumping popular ones). Developers on prominent products with many users generally are not following their fancy anymore; they are making their career. If they want to sully their career, dying on this hill is a way to do it.
- skybrian 7y ago
  Seems like at that point volunteering is no longer fun, and if you want people to put up with it, you need to pay them.
- _dps 7y ago
  > The developers hold the power here. They do not, this is exactly the point of free software. Anyone can fork it and release their fork under a different name. Don't want to do that work? Too bad. Want to force the developers to do it? Now which party is attempting to exercise power? The only thing the developers are doing is refusing to modify their free gift to the community to line up with other people's non-technical priorities. This is not an exercise of power — is it simply reminding people that free software contributors are not indentured servants.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

siphon22 7y ago

Wonder how many people who are up in arms about the name actually use GIMP? And how many of those are willing to monetarily compensate them for the lost recognition in the event they do change their name and are forced to start from scratch? It is strange that the title words it as "Gimp" when GIMP has always been "GIMP", which has a very specific meaning(it stands for GNU Image Manipulation Program) that has nothing to do with the word "gimp". I've used GIMP since I was in middle school and I have never ever known that it was a homophone for the more offensive term. I grew up in California and also never heard anyone use this term as an insult to anyone. Do non-American/English speaking GIMP users not have a say in this? Why do they have to have their GIMP become something else just because it happens to sound like a bad word in some other language? It'll be a huge shame if they go through with this, but even if it does, I will always refer to their work as GIMP, the GNU Image Manipulation Program.

leolambda 7y ago
> Wonder how many people who are up in arms about the name actually use GIMP? I, for one, use it every day. Have you taken a look at the discussion? Your questions are pretty thoroughly addressed, which, along with your final line here, make me think you're more interested in your desire to use ableist slurs and the holy right of software maintainers to ignore any and all criticism without consequences than anything else. Let us be clear: Nobody in this issue thread cares _at all_ about whether it was "meant" to convey the same meaning as the word "gimp". It is factually true that people find it awkward to recommend in professional settings because of its name, and sometimes the name makes adoption impossible. Obviously nobody can force the maintainers to do anything, but we can _ask_ them to change a superficial component of their excellent software to make it much more useful, which is what this issue was.
- siphon22 7y ago
  For the vast majority of the non-English world, GIMP means nothing except what it stands for, and the same goes for me. You have to note, "gimp" and "GIMP" mean completely different things.

GiorgioG 7y ago

Here's an idea: Why doesn't this guy (and anyone that agrees with him) spend 23 years building his own graphics editor, naming it whatever he likes?

siphon22 7y ago
GIMP is free software, so maybe they can just fork it and rename it :P
- leolambda 7y ago
  The GIMP project has purposely made it difficult to rename; patches making it easier to rename have been categorically rejected by the maintainers. So, yes, people are currently talking about forking it.
  - siphon22 7y ago
    They should do that, instead of destroying over 20 years of work to make their name. Let's see in the end which program will prosper.
    - leolambda 7y ago
      > destroying over 20 years of work to make their name. Oh right. I forgot filing an issue presenting a calm and reasoned argument for changing one string of text to another was the same as "destroying" a project.
      - siphon22 7y ago
        Snark is not acceptable on HN. And yes, making an established project change their name is destroying everything they had done for it under that name. They will have to start over from scratch and it will take years to reach the same level of name recognition.
        7y ago

dngray 7y ago

without naming names I see a lot of SJW in that issue without very many commits/participation in the open source community. Also the maintainers gave their reply as it is their prerogative to do so. > Michael Natterer @mitch · 5 hours ago Maintainer > Sorry, the name will not change, closing. Michael Natterer @mitch closed 5 hours ago So JordiGH, you needn't re-open the issue https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gimp/issues/3618 https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gimp/issues/3618 and post to HN with the hopes of generating outrage against the GIMP project for not doing what you want.

leolambda 7y ago
I have to agree. Please, everyone, if you're going to engage with this, look at https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gimp/issues/3617 https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gimp/issues/3617 and the discussion (and lack thereof) there. As someone who likes to think that I do have as many "commits/participation" as many others, I would appreciate it if people would focus on the core argument: It is hard to get people to use this software, who would otherwise benefit, because of their perception of the name, and it's easier to change the name once than change those perceptions every single time. If you have problems with THAT, I'd love to discuss them, but please leave "SJWism" and whatever out of it - that's not really what's at issue here.
- dngray 7y ago
  > As someone who likes to think that I do have as many "commits/participation" as many others, I would appreciate it if people would focus on the core argument The reason this is important is because in recent times essentially nobodies like to pop out of the woodwork with "ideas" like this. They then like to "shame" people who don't agree with them. There's nothing wrong with expecting people to build up a reputation before suggesting divisive and controversial ideas.
- jacobjuul 7y ago
  If you do a google search for GIMP you literally get no references to the slur.
jordigh 7y ago

writepub 7y ago

There is no grace in sullying innocent people selflessly building a fine free product, while asking nothing in return. The mental gymnastics and energy employed in attributing malice is much better spent in improving the product. Better yet, fork the product, rename it and do with it as you please. The authors are generous enough to allow that.

jacobjuul 7y ago

I don't agree nor disagree since I've never heard that word used for anything else than the software. But by this logic, we should also rename git

mkr-hn 7y ago
Git is not without issues, but it's not as bad as this word. There are two common ways to see gimp beyond what its defenders put forward: 1: A kink thing. 2: What the kink is based on: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gimp https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gimp -> https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cripple https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cripple Neither one is great for adoption. >> "I've never heard that word used for anything else than the software." There are a lot of words I didn't know were common slurs, or at least inaccurate or otherwise not okay until someone told me. For example: Eskimo (colonist nonsense), Gypsy (name given to Romani people based on mistaken belief they came from Egypt), Indian (some native people use it, but not all). Learning is great.

reitanqild 7y ago

https://www.gimp.org/docs/userfaq.html#i-dont-like-the-name-gimp-will-you-change-it https://www.gimp.org/docs/userfaq.html#i-dont-like-the-name-... Except for this? By all means consider renaming it. Or keep it to spite everyone who comes from the outside and tries to destroy hacker culture. Because that's what people are doing, destroying hacker culture just like we destroyed other cultures before. Yes, in some cases the new culture is better, but why oh why do we have to destroy everything funny or unusual in the process. This comes from someone who sometimes has to stand up for his group in other settings. Why can't society let us - and the hacker culture - alone as long as we adhere to the laws? If the GIMP won't be a commercial success - fine. Or someone can fork it and package it under another name - fine. Or the maintainers can sell out - or even agree - fine. But can't we stop this war against all forms of old school fun and what should I say - diversity?

krapp 7y ago
You claim to want to stop what you see as a war against fun and diversity, after insisting that anyone who doesn't share the same juvenile sense of humor as you, or who disagrees with the name of a software project, must be an outsider trying to destroy hacker culture? So do you want diversity or conformity, then? Stop with the gatekeeping BS, please. You don't get to say what hacker culture is or who belongs in it.
- effingwewt 7y ago
  There is a huge difference between asking to be left alone amd demanding others conform to something. If they don't like the name they don't have to use the software. Or as GP mentioned they can fork it to rename it whatever they'd like. Times like this I'm reminded of the adage 'Offense is taken not given.'
- slonewsday 7y ago
  This is fighting cultural imperialism, not "gatekeeping." I also question the intentions of the complainers. These kinds of complaints are usually made by people with little technical skills and barely any contributions to the project. They fabricate controversy in order to gain social media clout, then leverage that for consulting gigs.

ToFab123 7y ago

The snowflake generation do get offended by everything.

dang 7y ago
Please don't do this here, even when something seems wrong or annoying. Would you mind reviewing the site guidelines and sticking to them? Their intention is to try to keep this place from degrading so that it can remain interesting for all of us. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- ToFab123 7y ago
  Ok. I understand

slonewsday 7y ago

it's cultural imperialism

gnusty_gnurc 7y ago

This is mentioned in the FAQ and it's exceedingly clear and reasonable: > Finally, if you still have strong feelings about the name “GIMP”, you should feel free to promote the use of the long form GNU Image Manipulation Program or maintain your own releases of the software under a different name. https://www.gimp.org/docs/userfaq.html#i-dont-like-the-name-gimp-will-you-change-it https://www.gimp.org/docs/userfaq.html#i-dont-like-the-name-...

CydeWeys 7y ago
Maybe someone should do that, then. I'd be onboard with it. Then I could reference it by a better name and feel more OK with recommending it. The problem is, how many large Linux distros will accept a new package into their package managers that is essentially the exact same thing as an existing package, just with a different name and logo assets? For this to be truly successful, it has to be as easy as `apt-get install gpaint` (insert better name here).
- gnusty_gnurc 7y ago
  I'm not completely familiar but I get the sense that building a snap package isn't that much of a hurdle if there's such a big need for a renamed fork.
  - CydeWeys 7y ago
    I haven't had great experiences with Snap packages, to be honest. And the fact that they use their own sandboxed filesystem is really inconvenient for an image editing app. I probably won't be installing any more Snap packages.
    - gnusty_gnurc 7y ago
      Ok...then flatpak or appimage...there's a clear omnipresent issue here where people argue over petty issues that fragment and polarize the software ecosystem and it's only worse that resources are heavily constrained and voluntary. I don't mean this to discount your concern, but you're making a strong ask from a community that's based completely on loosely-coordinated voluntary efforts. If you want change - advocacy is not enough and frankly counterproductive. Start solving your problem and paying it forward to the people that you think will benefit.