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From what I've read, casinos are perfectly happy to let you count cards in blackjack. The advantage you get is so small, that even a few mistakes per hour means

From what I've read, casinos are perfectly happy to let you count cards in blackjack. The advantage you get is so small, that even a few mistakes per hour means you'll lose a bunch of money. It's only if you count cards and win that you get kicked out.

chimeracoder 7y ago
> From what I've read, casinos are perfectly happy to let you count cards in blackjack. The advantage you get is so small, that even a few mistakes per hour means you'll lose a bunch of money. It's only if you count cards and win that you get kicked out. It's not that the advantage is small (if it were, the MIT team would never have been so successful in the first place). It's that most people who try aren't good enough to do it well, so the casino is happy to let them try (and fail), thereby making money for the casino.
- TylerE 7y ago
  It's also worth noting that the MIT teams (and successors) stopped circa 2000. Times have changed. Casinos are much more on top of what's going on on the floor.
TylerE 7y ago
Count? Yes. USE the count? Typically no, unless you're betting very small and consistently. Basically, the way to annoy them and either get kicked out or only allowed to flat bet is to vary your bet size with the count (E.g. bet a lot when the count is favorable, and the table minimum otherwise). That's the only way to really make money counting. Much easier to detect these days with the eye in the sky. You can use the count to inform certain decisions that lower the house edge a bit, but typically not enough to actually be +EV. For instance, insurance is normally a very bad bet, but at certain counts it becomes +EV, but not +EV as a whole to make it worth...having to play blackjack.
- mateo411 7y ago
  If you use he high low system it's a +EV bet to take insurance when the count is +3. At that point the probability is greater than 1/3 that the dealer has a 10.
blunte 7y ago
Most casinos use multi-deck shoes (so multiple decks of cards in one stack which they deal from). Your counting advantage increases as the shoe gets smaller (more cards played, more history, more knowledge of odds of face cards remaining in the shoe). Casinos will shuffle all the cards before you have a significant knowledge advantage. They may adjust their shuffle point based on whether they detect a counter. If there are no counters at the table, then it's more efficient (for the house - hands played per n period) to play until close to an empty shoe. But if they detect a counter, they may shuffle much earlier - half shoe even. At that point, the counter has very little advantage. Regardless of the rules and what casinos choose to allow, they will stop a player that they believe will, over time, really hurt the house. In some cases, however, skilled players will be allowed to count and win big for a period if the house believes that player will take that money and lose it elsewhere on the property. Or if that player is influential and attracts/brings other less successful or disciplined whales, the house may ignore the cost of the one successful counter. In the end, it's about bottom line... unless the player pisses off someone important on the property. In that case, it doesn't matter what the player does - they're gone, banned, and probably blacklisted from other quality properties.

chimeracoder 7y ago

> From what I've read, casinos are perfectly happy to let you count cards in blackjack. The advantage you get is so small, that even a few mistakes per hour means you'll lose a bunch of money. It's only if you count cards and win that you get kicked out. It's not that the advantage is small (if it were, the MIT team would never have been so successful in the first place). It's that most people who try aren't good enough to do it well, so the casino is happy to let them try (and fail), thereby making money for the casino.

TylerE 7y ago
It's also worth noting that the MIT teams (and successors) stopped circa 2000. Times have changed. Casinos are much more on top of what's going on on the floor.

TylerE 7y ago

Count? Yes. USE the count? Typically no, unless you're betting very small and consistently. Basically, the way to annoy them and either get kicked out or only allowed to flat bet is to vary your bet size with the count (E.g. bet a lot when the count is favorable, and the table minimum otherwise). That's the only way to really make money counting. Much easier to detect these days with the eye in the sky. You can use the count to inform certain decisions that lower the house edge a bit, but typically not enough to actually be +EV. For instance, insurance is normally a very bad bet, but at certain counts it becomes +EV, but not +EV as a whole to make it worth...having to play blackjack.

mateo411 7y ago
If you use he high low system it's a +EV bet to take insurance when the count is +3. At that point the probability is greater than 1/3 that the dealer has a 10.

blunte 7y ago

Most casinos use multi-deck shoes (so multiple decks of cards in one stack which they deal from). Your counting advantage increases as the shoe gets smaller (more cards played, more history, more knowledge of odds of face cards remaining in the shoe). Casinos will shuffle all the cards before you have a significant knowledge advantage. They may adjust their shuffle point based on whether they detect a counter. If there are no counters at the table, then it's more efficient (for the house - hands played per n period) to play until close to an empty shoe. But if they detect a counter, they may shuffle much earlier - half shoe even. At that point, the counter has very little advantage. Regardless of the rules and what casinos choose to allow, they will stop a player that they believe will, over time, really hurt the house. In some cases, however, skilled players will be allowed to count and win big for a period if the house believes that player will take that money and lose it elsewhere on the property. Or if that player is influential and attracts/brings other less successful or disciplined whales, the house may ignore the cost of the one successful counter. In the end, it's about bottom line... unless the player pisses off someone important on the property. In that case, it doesn't matter what the player does - they're gone, banned, and probably blacklisted from other quality properties.