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Apple has squandered a lot of its goodwill. It reminds me of my relationship with Microsoft products. As long as they were shipping, they were making money in t

by aleem 7y ago

Apple has squandered a lot of its goodwill. It reminds me of my relationship with Microsoft products. As long as they were shipping, they were making money in the short term because people were coerced to buy in. For 5 damn years the Air didn't get a Retina display. Right now, I can't buy 2.8Ghz Macbook Pro unless I get the TouchBar. I can't buy an Air unless I settle for much lower specs. The dongles and USB-C are a mess. The 2-meters-at-most charging cables are a downgrade which will mean shorter battery life due to lesser plugging in. The lack of Magsafe is a downgrade, they removed a feature. The lack of any port variety which my 2013 Macbook Air did exceedingly well is a major downgrade. Consumers must carry a variety of dongles because the laptops don't offer a variety of ports. Profits are fine as long as they don't lead to perverse behavior. Apple needs to stop playing these fucking games and ship some pragmatism. The Apple of Cook is reminiscent of the Microsoft of Ballmer. He is totally out of touch with the product -- the very thing that Jobs inculcated.

schuke 7y ago
I didn’t even mind the non-retina display on the Air. But ffs give me an IPS panel at least. For years I see it being called the best laptop again and again by tech journalists. I always wondered if I was in a parallel universe.
- dhritzkiv 7y ago
  Despite not having IPS, I would still consider the Air of yesteryear to be the best laptop (for most people). I had the 2012 and 2014 models and found they were the perfect balance of form factor, build quality, and non-pro performance. I haven't evaluated the latest Retina Air, but if it improves on the non-Retina air with a better display and TouchID, it's still probably the best laptop for most people.
parasubvert 7y ago
See, I use a retina MBP touchbar and really don't agree. Apple has made some missteps but it's still the best pro laptop for my uses. Over two years with one replaced keyboard (because I spilled wine on it!) and no sticking keys. USB-C is awesome. I can reuse all my 3rd party and Apple adapters for my USB-C peripherals, including tablets and the Nintendo Switch. In retrospect, Magsafe wasn't that great (comes off too easily). Moving back to older USB ports really would make no sense. They're obsolete. If you have older peripherals, get the dongles. We've been using dongles since the VGA/DVI days or Serial/USB days, so I really don't get the problem with them. Life moves on. I have a need for HDMI and VGA and Mini DisplayPort and old USB... not to mention lightning. MUCH rather would have a single standard of multi-port w/ dongles than a mess of fixed ports. Also, on what planet did anyone have a Magsafe cord over 2m? It was fixed to the adapter. The 2m usb-c cable is removable, add it with the 1m (edit: 2m!) power cable and it is a further reach than any prior Mac laptop adapter I've had, though I suppose third party ones exist.
- dmix 7y ago
  You cant keep everyone happy and I personally love having 4 USB-c ports, with any one of them supporting power to the mac adapter (with any 3rd party cable). I have an external UCB-C 1TB M.2 and last night it transferred an entire 50gb directory of movies in <1-2 minutes to my MacBook Pro. Amazon sells USB-A to USB-C converters that’s the size of a tip of an old USB-A and they work great. I have 4 of them and use them less and less as more of my external products are USB-C. The 3rd party parts market always responds in kind, just don't be a first year adopter and you'll be fine. https://www.amazon.com/Syntech-Adapter-Thunderbolt-Compatible-MacBook/dp/B07CVX3516/ https://www.amazon.com/Syntech-Adapter-Thunderbolt-Compatibl...
  - kawsper 7y ago
    I have used a converter like the one you are linking to, but they damage easily, instead I recommend one with a bit of wire, like the ones Anker sells: https://www.anker.com/products/variant/powerline-usbc-to-usb-31-adapter/A8165011 https://www.anker.com/products/variant/powerline-usbc-to-usb... (they are also available on Amazon).
- lstamour 7y ago
  USB-C has lots of advantages, but it took 2-3 dark years before we started seeing commonly available peripherals that take advantage of the built-in protocols such as driver-less USB-C Ethernet adapters. I think USB-C on the iPad Pro and various phones has done more to turn USB-C into a viable standard than putting it on the laptops, since pros would obviously prefer existing and new Thunderbolt devices to USB-C devices. They could have moved iPhone/iPad to USB-C and used the MFI program to encourage USB-C for three years there, while adding USB-C support in a backwards-compatible way to their existing laptops. I would have been happy if they simply left me an HDMI port. As much as I want AirPlay everywhere, it's only in 2019 that we can buy a TV with AirPlay and make truly wireless/dongle-less Mac connections possible, which was the dream with Miracast on Windows/Android and the reality for many years with Chromecast. Also, Magsafe might have come off easily, but every time it did, I went "oh, that is a nice feature!" I never once complained that I couldn't charge my laptop with it, the battery would die before the magsafe adapter would. Plus, why did Apple remove functionality from their power cords, forcing you to buy all the cables for the power cord separately? There were so many downgrades to the MacBook Pro, I wonder why I stuck with it... (Frankly, Windows was just that bad at the time. It's since improved, so maybe that'll light a fire under Apple a bit.)
didgeoridoo 7y ago
The Ballmer comparison seems apt. Coasting on astronomical financial success while pursuing a vision (remember “Windows everywhere”?) that consumers don’t actually seem to want. Fortunately it seems that Microsoft has experienced a renaissance. I wonder if Apple has the humility and self-reflection to do the same.
mciancia 7y ago
You can get cables longer than 2m. I have 4m usb-c cable for charging my computer. And as for dongles, most people will need only one. And it's not like with other computers you don't need any dongles. Lottery with display connectors was always PITA (vga, hdmi, mini hdmi, micro hdmi, displayport, minidisplayport, dvi, mini-dvi). Having usb-c for that should finally solve this in some time.
- cptskippy 7y ago
  I don't have a newer Mac and I still have a box full of adapters. MicroHDMI-to-HDMI, MiniHDMI-to-HDMI, DisplayPort-to-HDMI, DisplayPort-to-VGA, DisplayPort-to-DVI, HDMI-to-DVI, USB-to-MiniUSB, USB-to-MicroUSB, Mini-to-MicroUSB... Then there are the Flash Memory readers...
untog 7y ago
I'm conflicted about the power adapter. I miss Magsafe. But I don't miss paying ~$80 when I (admittedly, stupidly) forget my charger on a trip. I can buy a $30 USB power brick, and then a USB C extension cable for a couple of dollars if I need a longer cable. My dream is a Magsafe cable. USB C on both ends, magnetic connector in the middle (or near one end). Best of both worlds. But Apple wouldn't be able to charge $80 for that.
- iaml 7y ago
  >My dream is a Magsafe cable Like this[0] ? [0] https://www.amazon.com/Magnetic-Adapter-Connector-Quick-Charge/dp/B07MMKZ8XD https://www.amazon.com/Magnetic-Adapter-Connector-Quick-Char...
  - evolutionxbox 7y ago
    I've got a similar product, but unless the company doesn't want USB-C certification the adapter is _really easy_ to pull out.
- appleiigs 7y ago
  Apple could have kept magsafe and added USB C. Didn't have to get rid of magsafe.
- fastball 7y ago
  My favorite MagSafe adapter ever has been a 3rd party one with a giant cable (that uses the '8' connector that is used by a lot of my TVs etc as well) which I bought on Amazon for $35 bucks. It also has 3, 2.1Amp USB-A ports for charging my phone / kindle / etc. It's really great and has lasted for 2 years so far with zero problems.
iSnow 7y ago
>The dongles and USB-C are a mess No, they are not. People have been saying the same when Apple killed NuBus, SCSI, serial, the old iPod adapter... USB-C is leaps better than old USB and is here to stay. I wish Dell had an XPS 13 with 2x USB-C Thunderbolt.
Gimpei 7y ago
Also they dropped nvidia so I can't train models on the GPU. I'm switching to PC + ubuntu for by next laptop.
- fleetingmoments 7y ago
  You trained Deep Learning models with a 2GB GPU? It must be a very niche problem where it both fits on an onboard mobile GPU and provides a significant performance gain over CPU considering the data transfer overhead?
  - bitL 7y ago
    eGPU most likely... With Sierra even NVidia worked fine, from High Sierra it's a disaster.
LeonM 7y ago
People should really stop complaining about the dongle situation. Just about any portable device can be bought with USB-C or wireless. For fixed desk hardware (keyboard, mouse, monitor, ethernet) you should use a TB dock anyway. Yes, if you do presentations you probably need a dongle for the projector, but that has always been a mess anyway (VGA, HDMI, DP, DVI, it's never the same connection as your laptop). Yes, if you use a camera you'll need an external SD card reader, but you'll need that for many other computers too.
- elsurudo 7y ago
  > People should really stop complaining about the dongle situation. You're not really refuting anything below, just essentially saying to people: you know, I know better than you, you don't really need these things (the same thing Apple is saying). > Just about any portable device can be bought with USB-C or wireless. For fixed desk hardware (keyboard, mouse, monitor, ethernet) you should use a TB dock anyway. Never had a need for a dock before... > Yes, if you do presentations you probably need a dongle for the projector, but that has always been a mess anyway (VGA, HDMI, DP, DVI, it's never the same connection as your laptop). I dunno, HDMI is pretty standard these days. > Yes, if you use a camera you'll need an external SD card reader, but you'll need that for many other computers too. No my current MBP, though, which is the point here.
- ramphastidae 7y ago
  People should really stop defending the dongle situation ... My 4K monitor bought in 2016 doesn't have a USB C input so I need to purchase a $20+ USB-C to HDMI or DP cable if I want to use a monitor? My iPhone SE bought in 2016 uses Lightning so I have to buy a $20+ Lightning to USB C cable to charge that as well? I guess I should throw out all of the other Lightning to USB-not-C cables I've had to purchase over the years? My Apple USB keyboard bought in 2016 also uses USB-not-C so I guess I have to buy an adapter for that too? Meanwhile my 2013 MBP is perfectly capable of connecting to a monitor and keyboard and charging a phone without paying for add-ons. On top of that you suggest we "should" be using a $200+ TB dock anyway? How about Apple doesn't require users to buy $300+ of adapters to use their latest laptop with modern peripherals?
cptskippy 7y ago
> The 2-meters-at-most charging cables are a downgrade From what exactly? My 2015 MBP and partner's older Air both have 2 meter cables from the Magsafe connector to Transformer. Mac power supplies have always had a modular transformer to mains connector that you can swap out for longer if you need.
prvc 7y ago
>The dongles and USB-C are a mess. The failure here is that they did not leverage their power over the market to drive adoption faster. Apple managed to get all the music labels in line back in the day, perhaps they could have done a little more to encourage peripheral makers. They could have, at the very least, dropped their proprietary lightning connector in new products in favor of USB, but I suppose they were blinded by the potential to increase short term revenue by selling superfluous future e-waste. One would assume that they had gained knowledge as to how to encourage adoption of Type C with their experience with their previous supported standards which failed to become popular, but evidently not. Adaptor and cable sales may have given them some revenue, but the need to use them, together with the other problems with their laptops have tarnished their brand.
drawnwren 7y ago
I personally like the lack of Magsafe. It means I can charge my macbook pro and my iphone with the same cab... oh wait, no I can't. Add iPhones still using lightning to this list.
rayiner 7y ago
I disagree with all of these. USB-C is great. You can use non-Apple chargers now, and external batteries. I never understood the dongle issue. You almost always need a cable to connect to something anyway, right? So why not carry a C-A cable instead of an A-A cable? Or a C to HDMI cable instead of an HDMI to HDMI cable? Or do people really leave cables at home and count on their destination having the right ones?
- puranjay 7y ago
  I don't even know why anyone would need that many cables. I've had to plug in a USB drive into my Macbook literally once in six months, and for that, I got a $5 C-A adapter that's half the size of my thumb. I used to think that Apple dropping CD drives in the original Air was a dealbreaker, but we all know how that CDs are largely redundant. The same way, we might realize in a few years that USB-A is redundant
Zenst 7y ago
Yes, removing magsafe was regression. They could (or somebody could) do a magsafe adapter for them perhaps. But this fetish to produce the smallest - we saw this before with mobile in the early day and that ended with what got affectionately known as the mars bar phone, then things got sane again. But with laptops it is different - what we effectively have is - hey look at our new cool smaller and lighter laptop. Don't look at the now heavier, larger bag of adapter and accessories you now need to carry so you may use it as you intended. Why their consumer base puts up with it makes no sense until you view the core of them as you view religion. Almost case for many that if Apple says jump, they jump. [EDIT ADD] This: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEERq5tLiOY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEERq5tLiOY maybe sums it up :). I like you comparision of Cook, maybe we will get a video of him one day doing a parody of Ballmer's infamous developers developers developers speech, with smaller smaller smaller. Maybe that has already happened - nobody would be supprised.
- eugeniub 7y ago
  A number of people have created magsafe adapters for USB-C but it's never really taken off.
  - Zenst 7y ago
    Aha, thank you - good to know. Had a quick google and yay - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Magnetic-Compatible-MacBook-Reversible-Charging/dp/B07KTZZLNX/ https://www.amazon.co.uk/Magnetic-Compatible-MacBook-Reversi... - though that was one of the first links that jumped out, nice picture of what it is, but if your getting one, do look around more as probably better or cheaper options.
    - bitL 7y ago
      Make sure they don't fry your power adapter - some USB-C magsafes like to do that upon disconnecting the cable from magsafe area.
puranjay 7y ago
How do people see removing Magsafe as a downgrade? My wife's Air has a Magsafe and the damn thing just keeps falling off. My new Air's charger has none of those problems. And if the cable gets torn, I can just plug in another. Even better, I can charge my other devices from the same cable. Right now, I'm charging my OnePlus phone with the same cable. This was definitely one case where Apple actually practiced some pragmatism
- _asummers 7y ago
  Have you ever tripped over a cable with the Magsafe connector while attached to your laptop? It comes off, like it's supposed to. What about the USB-C connectors? The laptop comes off the desk.
  - eugeniub 7y ago
    This assumes that Magsafe laptops will never fall off the table, even if pulled at less than ideal angles, and USB-C laptops will always fall off the table, even if pulled at the perfect angle for unplugging.
    - hombre_fatal 7y ago
      Unless you read it uncharitably and require disclaimer clauses in every internet comment, their comment just suggests that one is better than the other and points out a practical and reasonable scenario that demonstrates this difference. I really don't want an HN where we have to constantly hedge against an absolute reading of our comments with disclaimers like "btw, there are exceptions."
  - ryanlol 7y ago
    What is the use case for tripping over your laptop charger cable? I just can’t see myself having to do that very frequently, but I definitely remember the constant struggle that was keeping the magsafe cable plugged in.
    - 7y ago
samstave 7y ago
The lack of magsafe innovation really pisses me off. Make a friggen magsafe USB port. Period.
eugeniub 7y ago
> The 2-meters-at-most charging cables are a downgrade which will mean shorter battery life due to lesser plugging in. You must be referring to the fact that the extension cable is no longer bundled with USB-C MacBooks like it was with Magsafe MacBooks. To me that's extremely minor. I almost used my extension cable. And the new wall charger that lets you just unplug the USB-C cable and replace it with your own is a big plus for portability because it means you can use whatever USB-C length cable you want for charging. Plus the USB-C standard means I can buy a very lightweight and relatively cheap PowerPort Atom PD 1 charger for my MBP that I keep in my backpack so I always have a charger with me even when I'm not home or at the office. In other words, way better battery life.
stickfigure 7y ago
I just last week bought a pristine, maxed-out 2015 MacBook Pro. Yet I think you're wrong about most of this. * I hate magsafe. I've owned a dozen of these and almost all of them have come apart just behind the magsafe connector. Expensive, proprietary, and fragile. I would much much rather have USB-C than shell out $90 every two years. * USB-C is great. A bunch of different ports means carrying a bunch of different cables, so it doesn't matter what's on the computer-side. USB-C to microusb is no different than the USB-A to microusb. Actually it's better; the tiny dongles give you options without carrying a multitude of cables. * The touchbar is meh. I would probably enjoy having dedicated Step In/Step Over/Step Out buttons when debugging, but I'm not willing to pay $300 for that. The real problems with the new machines, which pushed me into buying a 2015 model, are: * The new keyboard. The ergonomics are fine, but I am hard on keyboards and nevertheless expect 5+ years of duty (my last machine was bought new in 2013, and just wasn't cutting it with 8G of RAM). I can't have an unreliable and expensive keyboard. * The price. A reasonably spec'd MBP is now pushing $3k. It's just too much! The specs of a modern maxed-out MBP are nearly identical to the 2015 model I just bought. Critically, I can't get more than 16G of RAM in a 13" form factor (and I'd really rather have something smaller). I bought a functionally equivalent machine and paid less than a third of what a new one costs. I don't want a sexy svelte fragile expensive luxury status symbol. I want a rugged capital good that will reliably allow me to work for the next half-decade.
- bmurphy1976 7y ago
  > The new keyboard. The ergonomics are fine, but I am hard on keyboards and nevertheless expect 5+ years of duty (my last machine was bought new in 2013, and just wasn't cutting it with 8G of RAM). I can't have an unreliable and expensive keyboard. I just don't get it. I've had my MPB with the new keyboard for 9 months now and I hate it more than ever. The ergonomics are absolutely terrible, the layout (particularly the arrow keys is terrible) the feedback is terrible, the fragility is terrible, the touchbar is terrible. 9 months and I still can't type for shit on this keyboard. This is coming from somebody who can type over 100 WPM with 98% accuracy. On a normal keyboard, when warmed up, I can correct many mistakes without even looking at the keyboard OR the monitor. I just know I made a mistake and my fingers know what to do to fix it (a side-effect of having done dictation and typing out handwritten papers/notes professionally for a couple years). They keyboard is objective crap. It's past time for it to go, or at least give us an option.
welly 7y ago
> The dongles and USB-C are a mess. The 2-meters-at-most charging cables are a downgrade which will mean shorter battery life due to lesser plugging in. The lack of Magsafe is a downgrade, they removed a feature. The lack of any port variety which my 2013 Macbook Air did exceedingly well is a major downgrade. Consumers must carry a variety of dongles because the laptops don't offer a variety of ports. Must we? My USB-C external hard drive and USB-C phone disagree with you. As does my USB-C magnetic adapter and my USB-C monitor. No dongles here. USB-C is the future (for USB), someone has to force the change.
dingus 7y ago
> USB-C are a mess Apple doesn't support USB-C adoption themselves, look at the cables included in all of their peripherals and the iOS lineup. They are all USB-A. Everything they sell is incompatible out of the box if you have anything in the MacBook line. I'm spending $300 on your keyboard and trackpad... and I can't even plug it into my MacBook. I have to buy a separate $20 USB-C cable. Why are they not including USB-A and USB-C cables in the box... if you're pushing for transition, put your money where your mouth is and take the (insignificant) hit. Or sell multiple unit versions that include the different USB types. There is no transition strategy. Years after introducing USB-C, they don't even support it themselves. It's just so thoughtless and careless, and cheap.
chadlavi 7y ago
The only place I ever plug anything besides a power cord into my macbook is at my desk, where there's a usb-c hub that has power, an external monitor, a USB mouse, a USB keyboard, and another open USB A port on it. I plug that single thing into my macbook and my entire workstation is plugged in. It's way less of a hassle than you're making it out to me.
- katbyte 7y ago
  Great, it works for your use case. Not everyone does that, not everyone has the same requirements as you. When i goto offices not setup for USBC and need to plug in power, monitor and ethernet? At a conference and i want to do external display, power and my cellphone to charge it & tether? With my 2015 i'll often (and easily) plug in 3-5 things at once when not at home (there i have a macmini)
- rrrazdan 7y ago
  Now try doing that with a 4k monitor at 60Hz. You can’t.
atombender 7y ago
The MagSafe has a brilliant feature which is often forgotten: You can take someone else's MagSafe cable and plug it into your own MacBook without disturbing that person. This is possible because of the magnetic connector, of course, but it's also because the connector has a light that tells you that the laptop is fully charged. I frequently sit in an office with co-workers, or in a room with friends, and there's an unspoken rule that you can nab someone's charging cable if you need to charge your own MacBook. The light helps in situations where the other person isn't near their MacBook, too. You'd obviously never take a charging cable from someone's laptop that might be low on juice. But if the light is green, you can.
- microtherion 7y ago
  > The light helps in situations where the other person isn't near their MacBook, too. You'd obviously never take a charging cable from someone's laptop that might be low on juice. But if the light is green, you can. If they were doing any computation with the lid closed, that's not going to make you any friends.
  - atombender 7y ago
    Surely they'd need an external screen connected for that.

by aleem 7y ago

schuke 7y ago

I didn’t even mind the non-retina display on the Air. But ffs give me an IPS panel at least. For years I see it being called the best laptop again and again by tech journalists. I always wondered if I was in a parallel universe.

dhritzkiv 7y ago
Despite not having IPS, I would still consider the Air of yesteryear to be the best laptop (for most people). I had the 2012 and 2014 models and found they were the perfect balance of form factor, build quality, and non-pro performance. I haven't evaluated the latest Retina Air, but if it improves on the non-Retina air with a better display and TouchID, it's still probably the best laptop for most people.

parasubvert 7y ago

See, I use a retina MBP touchbar and really don't agree. Apple has made some missteps but it's still the best pro laptop for my uses. Over two years with one replaced keyboard (because I spilled wine on it!) and no sticking keys. USB-C is awesome. I can reuse all my 3rd party and Apple adapters for my USB-C peripherals, including tablets and the Nintendo Switch. In retrospect, Magsafe wasn't that great (comes off too easily). Moving back to older USB ports really would make no sense. They're obsolete. If you have older peripherals, get the dongles. We've been using dongles since the VGA/DVI days or Serial/USB days, so I really don't get the problem with them. Life moves on. I have a need for HDMI and VGA and Mini DisplayPort and old USB... not to mention lightning. MUCH rather would have a single standard of multi-port w/ dongles than a mess of fixed ports. Also, on what planet did anyone have a Magsafe cord over 2m? It was fixed to the adapter. The 2m usb-c cable is removable, add it with the 1m (edit: 2m!) power cable and it is a further reach than any prior Mac laptop adapter I've had, though I suppose third party ones exist.

dmix 7y ago
You cant keep everyone happy and I personally love having 4 USB-c ports, with any one of them supporting power to the mac adapter (with any 3rd party cable). I have an external UCB-C 1TB M.2 and last night it transferred an entire 50gb directory of movies in <1-2 minutes to my MacBook Pro. Amazon sells USB-A to USB-C converters that’s the size of a tip of an old USB-A and they work great. I have 4 of them and use them less and less as more of my external products are USB-C. The 3rd party parts market always responds in kind, just don't be a first year adopter and you'll be fine. https://www.amazon.com/Syntech-Adapter-Thunderbolt-Compatible-MacBook/dp/B07CVX3516/ https://www.amazon.com/Syntech-Adapter-Thunderbolt-Compatibl...
- kawsper 7y ago
  I have used a converter like the one you are linking to, but they damage easily, instead I recommend one with a bit of wire, like the ones Anker sells: https://www.anker.com/products/variant/powerline-usbc-to-usb-31-adapter/A8165011 https://www.anker.com/products/variant/powerline-usbc-to-usb... (they are also available on Amazon).
lstamour 7y ago
USB-C has lots of advantages, but it took 2-3 dark years before we started seeing commonly available peripherals that take advantage of the built-in protocols such as driver-less USB-C Ethernet adapters. I think USB-C on the iPad Pro and various phones has done more to turn USB-C into a viable standard than putting it on the laptops, since pros would obviously prefer existing and new Thunderbolt devices to USB-C devices. They could have moved iPhone/iPad to USB-C and used the MFI program to encourage USB-C for three years there, while adding USB-C support in a backwards-compatible way to their existing laptops. I would have been happy if they simply left me an HDMI port. As much as I want AirPlay everywhere, it's only in 2019 that we can buy a TV with AirPlay and make truly wireless/dongle-less Mac connections possible, which was the dream with Miracast on Windows/Android and the reality for many years with Chromecast. Also, Magsafe might have come off easily, but every time it did, I went "oh, that is a nice feature!" I never once complained that I couldn't charge my laptop with it, the battery would die before the magsafe adapter would. Plus, why did Apple remove functionality from their power cords, forcing you to buy all the cables for the power cord separately? There were so many downgrades to the MacBook Pro, I wonder why I stuck with it... (Frankly, Windows was just that bad at the time. It's since improved, so maybe that'll light a fire under Apple a bit.)

didgeoridoo 7y ago

The Ballmer comparison seems apt. Coasting on astronomical financial success while pursuing a vision (remember “Windows everywhere”?) that consumers don’t actually seem to want. Fortunately it seems that Microsoft has experienced a renaissance. I wonder if Apple has the humility and self-reflection to do the same.

mciancia 7y ago

You can get cables longer than 2m. I have 4m usb-c cable for charging my computer. And as for dongles, most people will need only one. And it's not like with other computers you don't need any dongles. Lottery with display connectors was always PITA (vga, hdmi, mini hdmi, micro hdmi, displayport, minidisplayport, dvi, mini-dvi). Having usb-c for that should finally solve this in some time.

cptskippy 7y ago
I don't have a newer Mac and I still have a box full of adapters. MicroHDMI-to-HDMI, MiniHDMI-to-HDMI, DisplayPort-to-HDMI, DisplayPort-to-VGA, DisplayPort-to-DVI, HDMI-to-DVI, USB-to-MiniUSB, USB-to-MicroUSB, Mini-to-MicroUSB... Then there are the Flash Memory readers...

untog 7y ago

I'm conflicted about the power adapter. I miss Magsafe. But I don't miss paying ~$80 when I (admittedly, stupidly) forget my charger on a trip. I can buy a $30 USB power brick, and then a USB C extension cable for a couple of dollars if I need a longer cable. My dream is a Magsafe cable. USB C on both ends, magnetic connector in the middle (or near one end). Best of both worlds. But Apple wouldn't be able to charge $80 for that.

iaml 7y ago
>My dream is a Magsafe cable Like this[0] ? [0] https://www.amazon.com/Magnetic-Adapter-Connector-Quick-Charge/dp/B07MMKZ8XD https://www.amazon.com/Magnetic-Adapter-Connector-Quick-Char...
- evolutionxbox 7y ago
  I've got a similar product, but unless the company doesn't want USB-C certification the adapter is _really easy_ to pull out.
appleiigs 7y ago
Apple could have kept magsafe and added USB C. Didn't have to get rid of magsafe.
fastball 7y ago
My favorite MagSafe adapter ever has been a 3rd party one with a giant cable (that uses the '8' connector that is used by a lot of my TVs etc as well) which I bought on Amazon for $35 bucks. It also has 3, 2.1Amp USB-A ports for charging my phone / kindle / etc. It's really great and has lasted for 2 years so far with zero problems.

iSnow 7y ago

>The dongles and USB-C are a mess No, they are not. People have been saying the same when Apple killed NuBus, SCSI, serial, the old iPod adapter... USB-C is leaps better than old USB and is here to stay. I wish Dell had an XPS 13 with 2x USB-C Thunderbolt.

Gimpei 7y ago

Also they dropped nvidia so I can't train models on the GPU. I'm switching to PC + ubuntu for by next laptop.

fleetingmoments 7y ago
You trained Deep Learning models with a 2GB GPU? It must be a very niche problem where it both fits on an onboard mobile GPU and provides a significant performance gain over CPU considering the data transfer overhead?
- bitL 7y ago
  eGPU most likely... With Sierra even NVidia worked fine, from High Sierra it's a disaster.

LeonM 7y ago

People should really stop complaining about the dongle situation. Just about any portable device can be bought with USB-C or wireless. For fixed desk hardware (keyboard, mouse, monitor, ethernet) you should use a TB dock anyway. Yes, if you do presentations you probably need a dongle for the projector, but that has always been a mess anyway (VGA, HDMI, DP, DVI, it's never the same connection as your laptop). Yes, if you use a camera you'll need an external SD card reader, but you'll need that for many other computers too.

elsurudo 7y ago
> People should really stop complaining about the dongle situation. You're not really refuting anything below, just essentially saying to people: you know, I know better than you, you don't really need these things (the same thing Apple is saying). > Just about any portable device can be bought with USB-C or wireless. For fixed desk hardware (keyboard, mouse, monitor, ethernet) you should use a TB dock anyway. Never had a need for a dock before... > Yes, if you do presentations you probably need a dongle for the projector, but that has always been a mess anyway (VGA, HDMI, DP, DVI, it's never the same connection as your laptop). I dunno, HDMI is pretty standard these days. > Yes, if you use a camera you'll need an external SD card reader, but you'll need that for many other computers too. No my current MBP, though, which is the point here.
ramphastidae 7y ago
People should really stop defending the dongle situation ... My 4K monitor bought in 2016 doesn't have a USB C input so I need to purchase a $20+ USB-C to HDMI or DP cable if I want to use a monitor? My iPhone SE bought in 2016 uses Lightning so I have to buy a $20+ Lightning to USB C cable to charge that as well? I guess I should throw out all of the other Lightning to USB-not-C cables I've had to purchase over the years? My Apple USB keyboard bought in 2016 also uses USB-not-C so I guess I have to buy an adapter for that too? Meanwhile my 2013 MBP is perfectly capable of connecting to a monitor and keyboard and charging a phone without paying for add-ons. On top of that you suggest we "should" be using a $200+ TB dock anyway? How about Apple doesn't require users to buy $300+ of adapters to use their latest laptop with modern peripherals?

cptskippy 7y ago

> The 2-meters-at-most charging cables are a downgrade From what exactly? My 2015 MBP and partner's older Air both have 2 meter cables from the Magsafe connector to Transformer. Mac power supplies have always had a modular transformer to mains connector that you can swap out for longer if you need.

prvc 7y ago

>The dongles and USB-C are a mess. The failure here is that they did not leverage their power over the market to drive adoption faster. Apple managed to get all the music labels in line back in the day, perhaps they could have done a little more to encourage peripheral makers. They could have, at the very least, dropped their proprietary lightning connector in new products in favor of USB, but I suppose they were blinded by the potential to increase short term revenue by selling superfluous future e-waste. One would assume that they had gained knowledge as to how to encourage adoption of Type C with their experience with their previous supported standards which failed to become popular, but evidently not. Adaptor and cable sales may have given them some revenue, but the need to use them, together with the other problems with their laptops have tarnished their brand.

drawnwren 7y ago

I personally like the lack of Magsafe. It means I can charge my macbook pro and my iphone with the same cab... oh wait, no I can't. Add iPhones still using lightning to this list.

rayiner 7y ago

I disagree with all of these. USB-C is great. You can use non-Apple chargers now, and external batteries. I never understood the dongle issue. You almost always need a cable to connect to something anyway, right? So why not carry a C-A cable instead of an A-A cable? Or a C to HDMI cable instead of an HDMI to HDMI cable? Or do people really leave cables at home and count on their destination having the right ones?

puranjay 7y ago
I don't even know why anyone would need that many cables. I've had to plug in a USB drive into my Macbook literally once in six months, and for that, I got a $5 C-A adapter that's half the size of my thumb. I used to think that Apple dropping CD drives in the original Air was a dealbreaker, but we all know how that CDs are largely redundant. The same way, we might realize in a few years that USB-A is redundant

Zenst 7y ago

Yes, removing magsafe was regression. They could (or somebody could) do a magsafe adapter for them perhaps. But this fetish to produce the smallest - we saw this before with mobile in the early day and that ended with what got affectionately known as the mars bar phone, then things got sane again. But with laptops it is different - what we effectively have is - hey look at our new cool smaller and lighter laptop. Don't look at the now heavier, larger bag of adapter and accessories you now need to carry so you may use it as you intended. Why their consumer base puts up with it makes no sense until you view the core of them as you view religion. Almost case for many that if Apple says jump, they jump. [EDIT ADD] This: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEERq5tLiOY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEERq5tLiOY maybe sums it up :). I like you comparision of Cook, maybe we will get a video of him one day doing a parody of Ballmer's infamous developers developers developers speech, with smaller smaller smaller. Maybe that has already happened - nobody would be supprised.

eugeniub 7y ago
A number of people have created magsafe adapters for USB-C but it's never really taken off.
- Zenst 7y ago
  Aha, thank you - good to know. Had a quick google and yay - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Magnetic-Compatible-MacBook-Reversible-Charging/dp/B07KTZZLNX/ https://www.amazon.co.uk/Magnetic-Compatible-MacBook-Reversi... - though that was one of the first links that jumped out, nice picture of what it is, but if your getting one, do look around more as probably better or cheaper options.
  - bitL 7y ago
    Make sure they don't fry your power adapter - some USB-C magsafes like to do that upon disconnecting the cable from magsafe area.

puranjay 7y ago

How do people see removing Magsafe as a downgrade? My wife's Air has a Magsafe and the damn thing just keeps falling off. My new Air's charger has none of those problems. And if the cable gets torn, I can just plug in another. Even better, I can charge my other devices from the same cable. Right now, I'm charging my OnePlus phone with the same cable. This was definitely one case where Apple actually practiced some pragmatism

_asummers 7y ago
Have you ever tripped over a cable with the Magsafe connector while attached to your laptop? It comes off, like it's supposed to. What about the USB-C connectors? The laptop comes off the desk.
- eugeniub 7y ago
  This assumes that Magsafe laptops will never fall off the table, even if pulled at less than ideal angles, and USB-C laptops will always fall off the table, even if pulled at the perfect angle for unplugging.
  - hombre_fatal 7y ago
    Unless you read it uncharitably and require disclaimer clauses in every internet comment, their comment just suggests that one is better than the other and points out a practical and reasonable scenario that demonstrates this difference. I really don't want an HN where we have to constantly hedge against an absolute reading of our comments with disclaimers like "btw, there are exceptions."
- ryanlol 7y ago
  What is the use case for tripping over your laptop charger cable? I just can’t see myself having to do that very frequently, but I definitely remember the constant struggle that was keeping the magsafe cable plugged in.
  - 7y ago

samstave 7y ago

The lack of magsafe innovation really pisses me off. Make a friggen magsafe USB port. Period.

eugeniub 7y ago

> The 2-meters-at-most charging cables are a downgrade which will mean shorter battery life due to lesser plugging in. You must be referring to the fact that the extension cable is no longer bundled with USB-C MacBooks like it was with Magsafe MacBooks. To me that's extremely minor. I almost used my extension cable. And the new wall charger that lets you just unplug the USB-C cable and replace it with your own is a big plus for portability because it means you can use whatever USB-C length cable you want for charging. Plus the USB-C standard means I can buy a very lightweight and relatively cheap PowerPort Atom PD 1 charger for my MBP that I keep in my backpack so I always have a charger with me even when I'm not home or at the office. In other words, way better battery life.

stickfigure 7y ago

I just last week bought a pristine, maxed-out 2015 MacBook Pro. Yet I think you're wrong about most of this. * I hate magsafe. I've owned a dozen of these and almost all of them have come apart just behind the magsafe connector. Expensive, proprietary, and fragile. I would much much rather have USB-C than shell out $90 every two years. * USB-C is great. A bunch of different ports means carrying a bunch of different cables, so it doesn't matter what's on the computer-side. USB-C to microusb is no different than the USB-A to microusb. Actually it's better; the tiny dongles give you options without carrying a multitude of cables. * The touchbar is meh. I would probably enjoy having dedicated Step In/Step Over/Step Out buttons when debugging, but I'm not willing to pay $300 for that. The real problems with the new machines, which pushed me into buying a 2015 model, are: * The new keyboard. The ergonomics are fine, but I am hard on keyboards and nevertheless expect 5+ years of duty (my last machine was bought new in 2013, and just wasn't cutting it with 8G of RAM). I can't have an unreliable and expensive keyboard. * The price. A reasonably spec'd MBP is now pushing $3k. It's just too much! The specs of a modern maxed-out MBP are nearly identical to the 2015 model I just bought. Critically, I can't get more than 16G of RAM in a 13" form factor (and I'd really rather have something smaller). I bought a functionally equivalent machine and paid less than a third of what a new one costs. I don't want a sexy svelte fragile expensive luxury status symbol. I want a rugged capital good that will reliably allow me to work for the next half-decade.

bmurphy1976 7y ago
> The new keyboard. The ergonomics are fine, but I am hard on keyboards and nevertheless expect 5+ years of duty (my last machine was bought new in 2013, and just wasn't cutting it with 8G of RAM). I can't have an unreliable and expensive keyboard. I just don't get it. I've had my MPB with the new keyboard for 9 months now and I hate it more than ever. The ergonomics are absolutely terrible, the layout (particularly the arrow keys is terrible) the feedback is terrible, the fragility is terrible, the touchbar is terrible. 9 months and I still can't type for shit on this keyboard. This is coming from somebody who can type over 100 WPM with 98% accuracy. On a normal keyboard, when warmed up, I can correct many mistakes without even looking at the keyboard OR the monitor. I just know I made a mistake and my fingers know what to do to fix it (a side-effect of having done dictation and typing out handwritten papers/notes professionally for a couple years). They keyboard is objective crap. It's past time for it to go, or at least give us an option.

welly 7y ago

> The dongles and USB-C are a mess. The 2-meters-at-most charging cables are a downgrade which will mean shorter battery life due to lesser plugging in. The lack of Magsafe is a downgrade, they removed a feature. The lack of any port variety which my 2013 Macbook Air did exceedingly well is a major downgrade. Consumers must carry a variety of dongles because the laptops don't offer a variety of ports. Must we? My USB-C external hard drive and USB-C phone disagree with you. As does my USB-C magnetic adapter and my USB-C monitor. No dongles here. USB-C is the future (for USB), someone has to force the change.

dingus 7y ago

> USB-C are a mess Apple doesn't support USB-C adoption themselves, look at the cables included in all of their peripherals and the iOS lineup. They are all USB-A. Everything they sell is incompatible out of the box if you have anything in the MacBook line. I'm spending $300 on your keyboard and trackpad... and I can't even plug it into my MacBook. I have to buy a separate $20 USB-C cable. Why are they not including USB-A and USB-C cables in the box... if you're pushing for transition, put your money where your mouth is and take the (insignificant) hit. Or sell multiple unit versions that include the different USB types. There is no transition strategy. Years after introducing USB-C, they don't even support it themselves. It's just so thoughtless and careless, and cheap.

chadlavi 7y ago

The only place I ever plug anything besides a power cord into my macbook is at my desk, where there's a usb-c hub that has power, an external monitor, a USB mouse, a USB keyboard, and another open USB A port on it. I plug that single thing into my macbook and my entire workstation is plugged in. It's way less of a hassle than you're making it out to me.

katbyte 7y ago
Great, it works for your use case. Not everyone does that, not everyone has the same requirements as you. When i goto offices not setup for USBC and need to plug in power, monitor and ethernet? At a conference and i want to do external display, power and my cellphone to charge it & tether? With my 2015 i'll often (and easily) plug in 3-5 things at once when not at home (there i have a macmini)
rrrazdan 7y ago
Now try doing that with a 4k monitor at 60Hz. You can’t.

atombender 7y ago

The MagSafe has a brilliant feature which is often forgotten: You can take someone else's MagSafe cable and plug it into your own MacBook without disturbing that person. This is possible because of the magnetic connector, of course, but it's also because the connector has a light that tells you that the laptop is fully charged. I frequently sit in an office with co-workers, or in a room with friends, and there's an unspoken rule that you can nab someone's charging cable if you need to charge your own MacBook. The light helps in situations where the other person isn't near their MacBook, too. You'd obviously never take a charging cable from someone's laptop that might be low on juice. But if the light is green, you can.

microtherion 7y ago
> The light helps in situations where the other person isn't near their MacBook, too. You'd obviously never take a charging cable from someone's laptop that might be low on juice. But if the light is green, you can. If they were doing any computation with the lid closed, that's not going to make you any friends.
- atombender 7y ago
  Surely they'd need an external screen connected for that.