3 ms·

What is right? How can a person know? I don't think that principles are much more than oral tradition. And many of us don't have that in the modern world.

coldtea 7y ago
>What is right? How can a person know? We watch, we experience, we learn, we read, we ask around, we interact. Same as with any other thing. If I stole your wallet you'd immediately knew it wasn't right, wouldn't you? >I don't think that principles are much more than oral tradition. Well, I don't think oral tradition is not a good basis to base principles on. It implies historical experience, communal values, the test of time, and so on. It might not be perfect, but then again, it need not be.
- brighton36 7y ago
  I would know it was theft. I would assume it was right relative to the goals of the thief, albeit not myself, or the statutory codes. Right is a measure of social validation, or ideological compliance. (Both of which are transmitted via oral tradition) I agree that oral tradition is not a good basis to base principles on, lol. Welcome to my world.
losteric 7y ago
Well, I have principles based on logically reasoning backward from a subjective utopian ideal. No oral tradition or religious dogma here. "What is right" and "what is wrong" are good questions - ask yourself that repeatedly, over years, and you can find your principles too. "Why is X right/wrong?" are also helpful :)
- brighton36 7y ago
  what is the utopian ideal? Did you read it somewhere? (Was it communicated orally?) With the utopian ideal being subjective... it does seem fairly arbitrary. I don't generally see right as being useful in any way. It's unnuanced. And seems to revert to a tradition of some kind or another.
  - losteric 7y ago
    My (not "the") utopian ideal is one that actively minimizes suffering of sentient life... aiming for zero socially inflicted suffering (war, famine, coercion, etc) and in harmony with the environment (sustainable environmental exploitation). Working backwards involves details of socioeconomic structures and so on... but that's my ideal in a nutshell. It is subjective. I said that from the beginning. The value of strong principles is being able to make decisions with intent and confidence. Unless you consult an RNG for every decision, you still live by a set of principles... emergent, unexplored, uninformed ones, but principles nonetheless. Why do you work? Why do you do that work? Heck, why do you do laundry?
jazzyjackson 7y ago
I mean there's a whole book on the subject, it's just that most modern folk cast it off as fairy tales for ignorant superstitious people. But the more I read about it, the more I feel like we have the same problems and neuroticism as people did in Jesus' time.

coldtea 7y ago

>What is right? How can a person know? We watch, we experience, we learn, we read, we ask around, we interact. Same as with any other thing. If I stole your wallet you'd immediately knew it wasn't right, wouldn't you? >I don't think that principles are much more than oral tradition. Well, I don't think oral tradition is not a good basis to base principles on. It implies historical experience, communal values, the test of time, and so on. It might not be perfect, but then again, it need not be.

brighton36 7y ago
I would know it was theft. I would assume it was right relative to the goals of the thief, albeit not myself, or the statutory codes. Right is a measure of social validation, or ideological compliance. (Both of which are transmitted via oral tradition) I agree that oral tradition is not a good basis to base principles on, lol. Welcome to my world.

losteric 7y ago

Well, I have principles based on logically reasoning backward from a subjective utopian ideal. No oral tradition or religious dogma here. "What is right" and "what is wrong" are good questions - ask yourself that repeatedly, over years, and you can find your principles too. "Why is X right/wrong?" are also helpful :)

brighton36 7y ago
what is the utopian ideal? Did you read it somewhere? (Was it communicated orally?) With the utopian ideal being subjective... it does seem fairly arbitrary. I don't generally see right as being useful in any way. It's unnuanced. And seems to revert to a tradition of some kind or another.
- losteric 7y ago
  My (not "the") utopian ideal is one that actively minimizes suffering of sentient life... aiming for zero socially inflicted suffering (war, famine, coercion, etc) and in harmony with the environment (sustainable environmental exploitation). Working backwards involves details of socioeconomic structures and so on... but that's my ideal in a nutshell. It is subjective. I said that from the beginning. The value of strong principles is being able to make decisions with intent and confidence. Unless you consult an RNG for every decision, you still live by a set of principles... emergent, unexplored, uninformed ones, but principles nonetheless. Why do you work? Why do you do that work? Heck, why do you do laundry?

jazzyjackson 7y ago

I mean there's a whole book on the subject, it's just that most modern folk cast it off as fairy tales for ignorant superstitious people. But the more I read about it, the more I feel like we have the same problems and neuroticism as people did in Jesus' time.