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Great, the butterfly keys were an enormous downgrade in terms of comfort, and one of the reasons I sold my 2017 Macbook Pro. But will they still keep that awfu

Great, the butterfly keys were an enormous downgrade in terms of comfort, and one of the reasons I sold my 2017 Macbook Pro. But will they still keep that awful touchbar where the Esc and F1-12 are supposed to be? Then I'll still be passing.

vr46 7y ago
I have a personal 2015 MBP but my current client has provided me with a 2018 MBP. Despite being a Vim user, I’ve discovered that the Touch ID allows me to shut my laptop more often due to the quick login, rather than it being an always open distraction. (I work from books and paper a lot). This is not applicable to many others, I’m sure, but I’ve found a new way of using the laptop as a result: as yet another tool and not the dominant one.
- m12k 7y ago
  Yeah, it seems to me the ideal version still has TouchId but not the rest of the touch bar (Like modern Macbook Air). Combine that with scissor switch keys, and then I'll be happy to upgrade
  - mromanuk 7y ago
    so basically the 2020 ideal machine is the macbook pro mid-2015 (I've this) with newer cpu, memory, etc
    - vr46 7y ago
      Haha, yes, can’t wait. Function keys instead of a gigantic trackpad, too, please.
rikkus 7y ago
I had a loaner Touchbar-equipped MBP as my daily driver for a couple of months. I already had Caps Lock mapped to Ctrl. I used Karabiner Elements to map a Caps Lock press to Escape. It took about a day to get used to. I’ve managed to get a 2015 model back now, but I’m sticking with Caps Lock press = Escape. I miss the fingerprint reader!
dominostars 7y ago
I’m still using my 2012 MacBook Pro desperately hoping they release a new 15-inch line without the Touch Bar. I had bought a MacBook pro with the Touch Bar and after a few weeks I just hated it more and more and returned it. I’m still mad about them ditching MagSafe but I can get over that at least.
- spookybones 7y ago
  In the same position. Though I actually don’t like MagSafe that much. It falls out if you’re working on your lap, and the light is inconvenient if you charge at night. I much prefer the sound to notify charging.
- Tepix 7y ago
  Same here with the Macbook Pro 2012. I upgraded its SSD cheaply using a mSATA adapter, something that's not possible with more recent models. I don't see how this lack of upgradability meets the needs of "Pro" users.
  - bigwheeler 7y ago
    Same here. I’m sticking with 2012 until Apple makes a MBP at least as good as it, from a usability and reliability perspective.
audunw 7y ago
> But will they still keep that awful touchbar where the Esc and F1-12 are supposed to be? If you use the escape key often, it should be where caps-lock is. Mac OS X even has a built-in setting for this. If you only use it once in a while, it doesn't really matter that it's a virtual touch key. F1-12 has always been a horrible interface. They're too far away from home row. There's a reason why many hyper-optimized keyboads like Ergodox don't come with one. Letter-based keyboard shortcuts are always better, and are usually easier to remember because you can associate the letter they use with a word (Cmd+B for "Build"). The touch bar is objectively a better use of that space if you ask me, it just came with an unacceptable price jump. It's not that much better than the old key row
- efficax 7y ago
  > If you use the escape key often, it should be where caps-lock is. Mac OS X even has a built-in setting for this. Blasphemy. Caps lock should be banished from all keyboards and replaced with control.
  - Anarch157a 7y ago
    > Caps lock should be banished from all keyboards Blasphemy! How am I supposed to type variable names in Bash without it ?
    - waterhouse 7y ago
      I realize this is a joke, but when typing e.g. "echo $ITERM_PROFILE", you have to press shift anyway to type the $ and any subsequent _'s, and I find it considerably easier to hold down the shift key, type the whole word, and release, instead of: press shift for $, release, press caps lock, release and press shift for _, release, type rest of word, and disable caps lock at the end. Seriously, the only non-facetious use case (CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL) for caps lock that I've ever encountered is how EV Nova uses it as the 2x speed toggle. And even then, its open source successor Endless Sky emulates the same behavior even when I have caps lock still mapped to ctrl. Does anyone have a real use case for caps lock? I'm even willing to accept a serious, no-kidding "YES I ACTUALLY TYPE IN ALL CAPS MOST OF THE TIME WHEN CHATTING WITH MY FRIENDS AND IT'S EASIER" as an answer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caps_Lock#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caps_Lock#History and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typewriter#Shift_key https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typewriter#Shift_key give some background. "However, because the shift key required more force to push (its mechanism was moving a much larger mass than other keys), and was operated by the little finger (normally the weakest finger on the hand), it was difficult to hold the shift down for more than two or three consecutive strokes. The "shift lock" key (the precursor to the modern caps lock) allowed the shift operation to be maintained indefinitely." This seems not very applicable to modern keyboards.

vr46 7y ago

I have a personal 2015 MBP but my current client has provided me with a 2018 MBP. Despite being a Vim user, I’ve discovered that the Touch ID allows me to shut my laptop more often due to the quick login, rather than it being an always open distraction. (I work from books and paper a lot). This is not applicable to many others, I’m sure, but I’ve found a new way of using the laptop as a result: as yet another tool and not the dominant one.

m12k 7y ago
Yeah, it seems to me the ideal version still has TouchId but not the rest of the touch bar (Like modern Macbook Air). Combine that with scissor switch keys, and then I'll be happy to upgrade
- mromanuk 7y ago
  so basically the 2020 ideal machine is the macbook pro mid-2015 (I've this) with newer cpu, memory, etc
  - vr46 7y ago
    Haha, yes, can’t wait. Function keys instead of a gigantic trackpad, too, please.

rikkus 7y ago

I had a loaner Touchbar-equipped MBP as my daily driver for a couple of months. I already had Caps Lock mapped to Ctrl. I used Karabiner Elements to map a Caps Lock press to Escape. It took about a day to get used to. I’ve managed to get a 2015 model back now, but I’m sticking with Caps Lock press = Escape. I miss the fingerprint reader!

dominostars 7y ago

I’m still using my 2012 MacBook Pro desperately hoping they release a new 15-inch line without the Touch Bar. I had bought a MacBook pro with the Touch Bar and after a few weeks I just hated it more and more and returned it. I’m still mad about them ditching MagSafe but I can get over that at least.

spookybones 7y ago
In the same position. Though I actually don’t like MagSafe that much. It falls out if you’re working on your lap, and the light is inconvenient if you charge at night. I much prefer the sound to notify charging.
Tepix 7y ago
Same here with the Macbook Pro 2012. I upgraded its SSD cheaply using a mSATA adapter, something that's not possible with more recent models. I don't see how this lack of upgradability meets the needs of "Pro" users.
- bigwheeler 7y ago
  Same here. I’m sticking with 2012 until Apple makes a MBP at least as good as it, from a usability and reliability perspective.

audunw 7y ago

> But will they still keep that awful touchbar where the Esc and F1-12 are supposed to be? If you use the escape key often, it should be where caps-lock is. Mac OS X even has a built-in setting for this. If you only use it once in a while, it doesn't really matter that it's a virtual touch key. F1-12 has always been a horrible interface. They're too far away from home row. There's a reason why many hyper-optimized keyboads like Ergodox don't come with one. Letter-based keyboard shortcuts are always better, and are usually easier to remember because you can associate the letter they use with a word (Cmd+B for "Build"). The touch bar is objectively a better use of that space if you ask me, it just came with an unacceptable price jump. It's not that much better than the old key row

efficax 7y ago
> If you use the escape key often, it should be where caps-lock is. Mac OS X even has a built-in setting for this. Blasphemy. Caps lock should be banished from all keyboards and replaced with control.
- Anarch157a 7y ago
  > Caps lock should be banished from all keyboards Blasphemy! How am I supposed to type variable names in Bash without it ?
  - waterhouse 7y ago
    I realize this is a joke, but when typing e.g. "echo $ITERM_PROFILE", you have to press shift anyway to type the $ and any subsequent _'s, and I find it considerably easier to hold down the shift key, type the whole word, and release, instead of: press shift for $, release, press caps lock, release and press shift for _, release, type rest of word, and disable caps lock at the end. Seriously, the only non-facetious use case (CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL) for caps lock that I've ever encountered is how EV Nova uses it as the 2x speed toggle. And even then, its open source successor Endless Sky emulates the same behavior even when I have caps lock still mapped to ctrl. Does anyone have a real use case for caps lock? I'm even willing to accept a serious, no-kidding "YES I ACTUALLY TYPE IN ALL CAPS MOST OF THE TIME WHEN CHATTING WITH MY FRIENDS AND IT'S EASIER" as an answer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caps_Lock#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caps_Lock#History and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typewriter#Shift_key https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typewriter#Shift_key give some background. "However, because the shift key required more force to push (its mechanism was moving a much larger mass than other keys), and was operated by the little finger (normally the weakest finger on the hand), it was difficult to hold the shift down for more than two or three consecutive strokes. The "shift lock" key (the precursor to the modern caps lock) allowed the shift operation to be maintained indefinitely." This seems not very applicable to modern keyboards.