4 ms·

The problem with the design is that it breaks, not that it is otherwise bad. I prefer it over the older design, as do many others.

sa1 7y ago
Yep. I find myself unable to use my personal MBP 2015 after using the 2018 MBP for work. The feel is just so much better. The reliability is the issue(though I haven’t faced any issues yet).
Fnoord 7y ago
That is the main problem with it. * It breaks. * It makes a lot of noise. * It has almost no travel. I really dislike #2 and #3 but to their credit it is thin (which I don't care much about). You can argue about #2 and #3 being subjective which is fair enough (the same is true for it being thin). However #1 is not subjective, and doesn't occur in a "few isolated cases". It is a proven design issue. What I'd furthermore argue though is that #1 and #2 and #3 are together the sole result of going for thinness. After all, the previous keyboards worked great (and I owned 4 MBPs of the 2010-2015 range). Meanwhile, the prices of the MBPs have only increased which adds insult to injury! There's this saying, "if it ain't broken, don't fix it". At the same time there's "release early, release often". The first version of the iPhone had serious disadvantages. Apple didn't release AirPower. These each had their minus. However Apple has failed to address this specific minus. We've been beta testing this feature enough. It is time to admit the design flaw, and move on (but don't Osbourne the current series).
- WAHa_06x36 7y ago
  It may make a bit more noise than the older one, but it certainly does not make "a lot" of noise. And the short travel is also not a problem, just a personal preference. As I said, I much prefer it, as do many others.
  - Fnoord 7y ago
    It is a lot of noise compared to my flaretech red switches. It is a lot of noise compared to my current and previous MBPs are previous ThinkPads. Also, I even have my TouchPad on silent (I prefer than over the < 2015 versions even though the 2014 have less design flaws). You prefer it, I don't. Many others prefer it, many other's don't. Like the touchbar, it was a controversial change. But if it then turns out to break regularly, then it is better to return to the previous design.
  - whywhywhywhy 7y ago
    > but it certainly does not make "a lot" of noise Personal anecdote but I was on an film set recently with mine, I'd planned to just work away because I was only going to be needed if things went wrong but on a quiet set I actually felt the keyboard was so noisy that I'd worry it would be getting picked up on the microphones. It felt uncomfortably loud even if they're filming a good 10 meters away. I actually do like noisy keyboards in my own home, but the issue with Apple is if one size fits all then you really need to think of all the places that machine is potentially going to end up.
    - Fnoord 7y ago
      I often travel with public transport, including by train. Noisy people on smartphone is annoying, but there is a silence coupe where people have to be silent. So you can go sit there, right? Then it becomes apparent how noisy these newer Apple MBPs are. Whenever I get annoyed by the noise of a laptop, it is that. And unfortunately I cannot listen to music and read... I wish I could! But I can't...
- ggregoire 7y ago
  > * It makes a lot of noise. You don't work with people using mechanical keyboards, right?
  - Fnoord 7y ago
    Everyone here, including e.g. IT, uses HP membrane keyboards with not a whole lot of travel. They don't make noise. I grew up with a IBM keyboard. Only thing I remember is I loved the feeling of it because they keys were always under my finger. I don't remember how much noise it made. I guess it is different if you're the person who's typing. Not every mechanical keyboard creates as much noise as the other one though. And it also depends on how you use the keyboard. If I'd work from home, a MBP butterfly would make my partner insane though. It could wake up my child, even. If you make your own noise, it is might be soothing or something. If it is other people around you whilst you're trying to concentrate you are violating their ability to use their time efficiently. I'm of the opinion that we should value such as "extremely rude".

sa1 7y ago

Yep. I find myself unable to use my personal MBP 2015 after using the 2018 MBP for work. The feel is just so much better. The reliability is the issue(though I haven’t faced any issues yet).

Fnoord 7y ago

That is the main problem with it. * It breaks. * It makes a lot of noise. * It has almost no travel. I really dislike #2 and #3 but to their credit it is thin (which I don't care much about). You can argue about #2 and #3 being subjective which is fair enough (the same is true for it being thin). However #1 is not subjective, and doesn't occur in a "few isolated cases". It is a proven design issue. What I'd furthermore argue though is that #1 and #2 and #3 are together the sole result of going for thinness. After all, the previous keyboards worked great (and I owned 4 MBPs of the 2010-2015 range). Meanwhile, the prices of the MBPs have only increased which adds insult to injury! There's this saying, "if it ain't broken, don't fix it". At the same time there's "release early, release often". The first version of the iPhone had serious disadvantages. Apple didn't release AirPower. These each had their minus. However Apple has failed to address this specific minus. We've been beta testing this feature enough. It is time to admit the design flaw, and move on (but don't Osbourne the current series).

WAHa_06x36 7y ago
It may make a bit more noise than the older one, but it certainly does not make "a lot" of noise. And the short travel is also not a problem, just a personal preference. As I said, I much prefer it, as do many others.
- Fnoord 7y ago
  It is a lot of noise compared to my flaretech red switches. It is a lot of noise compared to my current and previous MBPs are previous ThinkPads. Also, I even have my TouchPad on silent (I prefer than over the < 2015 versions even though the 2014 have less design flaws). You prefer it, I don't. Many others prefer it, many other's don't. Like the touchbar, it was a controversial change. But if it then turns out to break regularly, then it is better to return to the previous design.
- whywhywhywhy 7y ago
  > but it certainly does not make "a lot" of noise Personal anecdote but I was on an film set recently with mine, I'd planned to just work away because I was only going to be needed if things went wrong but on a quiet set I actually felt the keyboard was so noisy that I'd worry it would be getting picked up on the microphones. It felt uncomfortably loud even if they're filming a good 10 meters away. I actually do like noisy keyboards in my own home, but the issue with Apple is if one size fits all then you really need to think of all the places that machine is potentially going to end up.
  - Fnoord 7y ago
    I often travel with public transport, including by train. Noisy people on smartphone is annoying, but there is a silence coupe where people have to be silent. So you can go sit there, right? Then it becomes apparent how noisy these newer Apple MBPs are. Whenever I get annoyed by the noise of a laptop, it is that. And unfortunately I cannot listen to music and read... I wish I could! But I can't...
ggregoire 7y ago
> * It makes a lot of noise. You don't work with people using mechanical keyboards, right?
- Fnoord 7y ago
  Everyone here, including e.g. IT, uses HP membrane keyboards with not a whole lot of travel. They don't make noise. I grew up with a IBM keyboard. Only thing I remember is I loved the feeling of it because they keys were always under my finger. I don't remember how much noise it made. I guess it is different if you're the person who's typing. Not every mechanical keyboard creates as much noise as the other one though. And it also depends on how you use the keyboard. If I'd work from home, a MBP butterfly would make my partner insane though. It could wake up my child, even. If you make your own noise, it is might be soothing or something. If it is other people around you whilst you're trying to concentrate you are violating their ability to use their time efficiently. I'm of the opinion that we should value such as "extremely rude".