4 ms·

For one thing you can (and will) generate blood sugar from protein, even with no supply of "carbs". I've heard that eventually after a few weeks the brain can u

For one thing you can (and will) generate blood sugar from protein, even with no supply of "carbs". I've heard that eventually after a few weeks the brain can use fat, but I don't know to which degree. Also the lack of insulin means the glucose isn't going anywhere to be used. Diabetic ketoacidosis will eventually lead to a Koma.

qwerty456127 7y ago
Sounds like you hardly know much more than I do. I wish scientifically-backed people could tell us exactly how much glucose does the body make out of proteins once it switches to ketosis and if lipoic acid supplementation can be enough to force the cells to consume it quickly enough.
- bayesian_horse 7y ago
  Nobody can predict how much glucose you make from protein. Just too damn complicated. I've never heard about Type-1 diabetics avoiding insulin through low-carb diets. From what I know about diabetes management (and I know a lot) that sounds incredibly dangerous. Still, keto-genetic diets and even fasting, can be very beneficial, especially for Type-2, but patients need to keep track of their blood sugar. If you take insulin, you MUST check your blood sugar level, otherwise you may faint or go into a life threatening ketoacidosis.
  - qwerty456127 7y ago
    Again, we have the same data. But doesn't lack of data on glucose levels during ketosis with zero-glucose diets in type-1 diabetics seem weird to you too? As far as I know (obviously I may be wrong and I'm not an expert, just a curious person) once your body switches to ketosis it is fueled entirely by ketone bodies (which feels awesome according to my experience, but I'm not diabetic) and does not use glucose any more. I also thought it stops producing glucose from proteins too when in this mode. So this seems an obviously interesting area for research.
    - bayesian_horse 7y ago
      As I had Type 2 diabetes for a short time after a flu and because I studied veterinary medicine, I can assume to have a bit more data than you. The assumption that there is no glucose used by your body when you are eliminating it from your diet is flatly wrong. Firstly eliminating glucose and anything we can make glucose from (carbohydrates and protein) from a sustainable diet (= not using up your reserves) is next to impossible. Secondly even when there is no protein and no carbohydrates in the diet, your body will claim the protein from your muscles and turn that into blood sugar. Thirdly, some tissues in the body, especially the brain, just plainly need glucose. The body will make glucose, no matter what, even at the expense of destroying itself. There is a lot of hype, marketing and simplification around ketogenic diets. Not all of that translates down to the actual physiology. Ketogenic diets are beneficial to diabetics, fasting will lower insulin tolerance, whether you are a diabetic or not. This is well known, and research is going on. There are even indications that fasting leads to more insulin production in Type-1 diabetic.
      - qwerty456127 7y ago
        Can you reference any sources to confirm the body keeps producing glucose from protein once it has switched to ketososis (which you don't have to eliminate protein for, the diet just is to be lots of fats and some proteins) the brain always needs glucose and ketone bodies can't replace it completely? I don't mean you are wrong, you just are the first person I've met who tells there is glucose in ketosis (don't confuse it with diabetic ketoacidosis) and I'm curious to know for sure.
        bayesian_horse 7y ago
        You need to start with the basics: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypoglycemia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypoglycemia and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_causes_of_hypoglycemia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_causes_of_hypoglycemia Note how both articles don't talk about fasting or ketogenic diets. Basic idea: even a low blood sugar level (let alone 0) is very very bad news. The metabolism will do its utmost to make glucose, even from amino acids. That's why even people who eat nothing don't have hypoglycemia all the time...
- EForEndeavour 7y ago
  To restate bayesian_horse's point: the lack of insulin means the glucose isn't going anywhere to be used. Insulin allows liver and muscle cells to take up glucose (the body's main energy source) from the bloodstream. No insulin -> cells can't absorb glucose from bloodstream -> high blood glucose + coma + wasting away.

qwerty456127 7y ago

Sounds like you hardly know much more than I do. I wish scientifically-backed people could tell us exactly how much glucose does the body make out of proteins once it switches to ketosis and if lipoic acid supplementation can be enough to force the cells to consume it quickly enough.

bayesian_horse 7y ago
Nobody can predict how much glucose you make from protein. Just too damn complicated. I've never heard about Type-1 diabetics avoiding insulin through low-carb diets. From what I know about diabetes management (and I know a lot) that sounds incredibly dangerous. Still, keto-genetic diets and even fasting, can be very beneficial, especially for Type-2, but patients need to keep track of their blood sugar. If you take insulin, you MUST check your blood sugar level, otherwise you may faint or go into a life threatening ketoacidosis.
- qwerty456127 7y ago
  Again, we have the same data. But doesn't lack of data on glucose levels during ketosis with zero-glucose diets in type-1 diabetics seem weird to you too? As far as I know (obviously I may be wrong and I'm not an expert, just a curious person) once your body switches to ketosis it is fueled entirely by ketone bodies (which feels awesome according to my experience, but I'm not diabetic) and does not use glucose any more. I also thought it stops producing glucose from proteins too when in this mode. So this seems an obviously interesting area for research.
  - bayesian_horse 7y ago
    As I had Type 2 diabetes for a short time after a flu and because I studied veterinary medicine, I can assume to have a bit more data than you. The assumption that there is no glucose used by your body when you are eliminating it from your diet is flatly wrong. Firstly eliminating glucose and anything we can make glucose from (carbohydrates and protein) from a sustainable diet (= not using up your reserves) is next to impossible. Secondly even when there is no protein and no carbohydrates in the diet, your body will claim the protein from your muscles and turn that into blood sugar. Thirdly, some tissues in the body, especially the brain, just plainly need glucose. The body will make glucose, no matter what, even at the expense of destroying itself. There is a lot of hype, marketing and simplification around ketogenic diets. Not all of that translates down to the actual physiology. Ketogenic diets are beneficial to diabetics, fasting will lower insulin tolerance, whether you are a diabetic or not. This is well known, and research is going on. There are even indications that fasting leads to more insulin production in Type-1 diabetic.
    - qwerty456127 7y ago
      Can you reference any sources to confirm the body keeps producing glucose from protein once it has switched to ketososis (which you don't have to eliminate protein for, the diet just is to be lots of fats and some proteins) the brain always needs glucose and ketone bodies can't replace it completely? I don't mean you are wrong, you just are the first person I've met who tells there is glucose in ketosis (don't confuse it with diabetic ketoacidosis) and I'm curious to know for sure.
      - bayesian_horse 7y ago
        You need to start with the basics: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypoglycemia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypoglycemia and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_causes_of_hypoglycemia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_causes_of_hypoglycemia Note how both articles don't talk about fasting or ketogenic diets. Basic idea: even a low blood sugar level (let alone 0) is very very bad news. The metabolism will do its utmost to make glucose, even from amino acids. That's why even people who eat nothing don't have hypoglycemia all the time...
EForEndeavour 7y ago
To restate bayesian_horse's point: the lack of insulin means the glucose isn't going anywhere to be used. Insulin allows liver and muscle cells to take up glucose (the body's main energy source) from the bloodstream. No insulin -> cells can't absorb glucose from bloodstream -> high blood glucose + coma + wasting away.