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> That's a view that seem common among extreme libertarians. “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by

> That's a view that seem common among extreme libertarians. “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” If that is “extreme libertarian” then count me in. The United States was literally founded on this concept. It’s extreme to think of rights any differently, at least if you are an American. ”Extreme” is the idea that rights are gifts from government or from the benevolence of a sovereign. The view of rights as being unalienable is distinctly American; Englishman Thomas Hobbes expounded on this and thusly planted the seeds of the American idea. Such seeds didn’t take root in England at the time as citizens there were subjects of a king, but it was Hobbes that set the wheels of freedom in motion. Extreme? I suppose it depends on one’s perspective. At the time Hobbes was extreme, but then, as Americans, we might think of any idea contrary to liberty as a extreme.

igravious 7y ago
> The view of rights as being unalienable is distinctly American That's quite a claim. > Englishman Thomas Hobbes expounded on this and thusly planted the seeds of the American idea. John Locke is the usual go-to figure, no? > Such seeds didn’t take root in England at the time Are you sure? “17th-century English philosopher John Locke discussed natural rights in his work, identifying them as being "life, liberty, and estate (property)", and argued that such fundamental rights could not be surrendered in the social contract. In Britain in 1689, the English Bill of Rights and the Scottish Claim of Right each made illegal a range of oppressive governmental actions.[18] Two major revolutions occurred during the 18th century, in the United States (1776) and in France (1789), leading to the United States Declaration of Independence and the French Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen respectively, both of which articulated certain human rights. Additionally, the Virginia Declaration of Rights of 1776 encoded into law a number of fundamental civil rights and civil freedoms.”
gota 7y ago
I didn't mean that _only_ extremely libertarian (or communitarian) people hold one or the other end of the argument. Just that it it's more common, as these are most likely core concerns for those people

igravious 7y ago

> The view of rights as being unalienable is distinctly American That's quite a claim. > Englishman Thomas Hobbes expounded on this and thusly planted the seeds of the American idea. John Locke is the usual go-to figure, no? > Such seeds didn’t take root in England at the time Are you sure? “17th-century English philosopher John Locke discussed natural rights in his work, identifying them as being "life, liberty, and estate (property)", and argued that such fundamental rights could not be surrendered in the social contract. In Britain in 1689, the English Bill of Rights and the Scottish Claim of Right each made illegal a range of oppressive governmental actions.[18] Two major revolutions occurred during the 18th century, in the United States (1776) and in France (1789), leading to the United States Declaration of Independence and the French Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen respectively, both of which articulated certain human rights. Additionally, the Virginia Declaration of Rights of 1776 encoded into law a number of fundamental civil rights and civil freedoms.”

gota 7y ago

I didn't mean that _only_ extremely libertarian (or communitarian) people hold one or the other end of the argument. Just that it it's more common, as these are most likely core concerns for those people