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There's no point since you'll be downvoted to the abyssal plane and nobody will see your comment.

enriquto 7y ago
> There's no point since you'll be downvoted to the abyssal plane and nobody will see your comment. We are quite a bunch of people who start reading the comment threads from below!
briantakita 7y ago
Sometimes it's a badge of honor to get a bunch of downvotes. It's validation that a "sacred cow" has been cooked into tasty burgers.
- mythrwy 7y ago
  The fun part is when those you have disagreed with other threads follow you about to downvote unrelated comments. I expect they feel that they are on a crusade of righteousness of some sort.
  - tobr 7y ago
    How would you know if that is happening?
    - flukus 7y ago
      You check for replies and you notice that all of your most recent comments have had a down vote in a suspiciously small amount of time, even if the comment was days ago in a tiny thread no one is reading.
- ScottBurson 7y ago
  Sorry, had to upvote this!
- enraged_camel 7y ago
  Yep. When I'm 100% correct about something [1] and I get downvoted, it only strengthens my resolve and solidifies my belief. :) [1]Which is most of the time
- phs318u 7y ago
  > It's validation that a "sacred cow" has been cooked into tasty burgers. Or that you’re being a jerk. The HN guidance on commentary is clearly a large part of why HN hasn’t devolved into Slashdot, and the generally on-point and respectful discussions invite really interesting and knowledgeable people to hang around, from whom we all benefit. I’ll admit that I’ve occasionally scratched my head over downvotes I’ve received. But while there may well be some that apply votes contrary to the guidelines, in most cases - if I honestly review what I’ve written - I’ve phrased my comment in a way that’s not conducive to productive discourse.
  - briantakita 7y ago
    > Or that you’re being a jerk. Sometimes that's the case. However, I've seen ample legitimate discussion following the guidelines & conducive to further discussion, being downvoted because the downvoter obviously disagrees with the post. It tends to occur on "controversial issues" when not enough "weasel words" & "neutrality modifiers" are being used. After a while, one realizes the futility of chasing "karma". That being clear & forceful, according to one's ethics, in expression is far more rewarding.
  - close04 7y ago
    > The HN guidance on commentary Votes receive no guidance and most people don't vote for the quality and accuracy of the comment, they do it based on how that comment fits with their personal opinion. I've seen civilized and purely objective comments being seriously downvoted, especially on polarizing topics. Many go beyond just this and after you have one unpopular comment you realize all of your comments that day just received the same exact number of downvotes at the same approximate time. So I wouldn't really call it 50/50 between "sacred cow turned burger" and "being a jerk" downvotes but it sure is too close to trust the voting system blindly. I will read even the greyed out comments.
    - smichel17 7y ago
      I read using the Android app, "Materialistic" (on f-droid), which doesn't display vote counts. I think it's great -- I pay much more attention to the contents of comments and judge them on merit rather than voted. You can do a similar thing on desktop with ublock origin's cosmetic filtering (right click > block element).
- enriquto 7y ago
  > Sometimes it's a badge of honor to get a bunch of downvotes. It's validation that a "sacred cow" has been cooked into tasty burgers. I want to express my appreciation for this comment, but I don't know what will make you happier, an upvote or a downvote?
  - Intermernet 7y ago
    Do either one, then unvote it!
Intermernet 7y ago
I have showdead turned on and always read the dead comments. Sometimes it's a mystery why they're dead (user isn't banned, not seemingly rude or controversial) and I always think it might have been an accidental swarm of down-voting mis-clicks by just enough random users.
- dang 7y ago
  Why don't you vouch for them? Vouching is a way for users to rescue [dead] comments that shouldn't be [dead]. Click on the timestamp to go to its page, then click 'vouch' at the top. (There's a small karma threshold for such links to appear.) Comments can be [dead] for many reasons, including software (which doesn't get everything right) or the account being banned (which doesn't mean that every post is bad—indeed, some users start posting good comments only once we've banned them). So there are plenty of good comments that need to be rescued, which is why we introduced vouching in the first place. It works well when users use it.
  - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
    Quick question if I can. Have I triggered some evil spammer bit in the system somehow, as I haven't been able to vouch for a while - it no longer rescues anything. Or did it change to need more than one vote? Thanks.
    - dang 7y ago
      Yes, you vouched for too many comments that break the site guidelines, such as personal attacks and flamewars. When an account does that, we eventually notice and take vouching rights away. The feature is for rescuing good comments that are in the spirit of the site, not comments that violate it. We're always happy to restore privileges if people give us reason to believe that they've had a change of heart and want to use HN as intended in the future.
      - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
        Well my first reaction to that is one of amazed disbelief. Personal attacks and flamewars are usually bleeding obvious, and equally easy to avoid. With it having been there a while, I can't think of any specific comments one way or another, but was and have always intended to use it to rescue (typically) a comment making a good point to the discussion, or the question I'd be interested in an answer to as well. So I can't imagine how I crossed whatever line. I generally agree wth the tone of moderation here, and degree of leeway usually given. I think my comment history would bear out in tone and style that I'm using as intended, and I don't recall ever having had a mod pick up any of my comments. :p I disagree with the odd rare one - this is hard to generalise without going away to dig for examples - usually where it seems to get a slap on the wrist for a reasonable, or historically accurate point within the flow of a discussion where the complaint of nationalistic or whatever seems a bit of a stretch. Case in point, the guy posting links that seemed to be reliably going on every climate related topic - I'd have said nowt for one or two, but had seen enough, like on every related post I'd read in a couple of days, that I thought it would have been missed by mods and worth a mention. Others trigger much sooner than I. Make of that as you will. :)

> There's no point since you'll be downvoted to the abyssal plane and nobody will see your comment. We are quite a bunch of people who start reading the comment threads from below!

briantakita 7y ago

Sometimes it's a badge of honor to get a bunch of downvotes. It's validation that a "sacred cow" has been cooked into tasty burgers.

mythrwy 7y ago
The fun part is when those you have disagreed with other threads follow you about to downvote unrelated comments. I expect they feel that they are on a crusade of righteousness of some sort.
- tobr 7y ago
  How would you know if that is happening?
  - flukus 7y ago
    You check for replies and you notice that all of your most recent comments have had a down vote in a suspiciously small amount of time, even if the comment was days ago in a tiny thread no one is reading.
ScottBurson 7y ago
Sorry, had to upvote this!
enraged_camel 7y ago
Yep. When I'm 100% correct about something [1] and I get downvoted, it only strengthens my resolve and solidifies my belief. :) [1]Which is most of the time
phs318u 7y ago
> It's validation that a "sacred cow" has been cooked into tasty burgers. Or that you’re being a jerk. The HN guidance on commentary is clearly a large part of why HN hasn’t devolved into Slashdot, and the generally on-point and respectful discussions invite really interesting and knowledgeable people to hang around, from whom we all benefit. I’ll admit that I’ve occasionally scratched my head over downvotes I’ve received. But while there may well be some that apply votes contrary to the guidelines, in most cases - if I honestly review what I’ve written - I’ve phrased my comment in a way that’s not conducive to productive discourse.
- briantakita 7y ago
  > Or that you’re being a jerk. Sometimes that's the case. However, I've seen ample legitimate discussion following the guidelines & conducive to further discussion, being downvoted because the downvoter obviously disagrees with the post. It tends to occur on "controversial issues" when not enough "weasel words" & "neutrality modifiers" are being used. After a while, one realizes the futility of chasing "karma". That being clear & forceful, according to one's ethics, in expression is far more rewarding.
- close04 7y ago
  > The HN guidance on commentary Votes receive no guidance and most people don't vote for the quality and accuracy of the comment, they do it based on how that comment fits with their personal opinion. I've seen civilized and purely objective comments being seriously downvoted, especially on polarizing topics. Many go beyond just this and after you have one unpopular comment you realize all of your comments that day just received the same exact number of downvotes at the same approximate time. So I wouldn't really call it 50/50 between "sacred cow turned burger" and "being a jerk" downvotes but it sure is too close to trust the voting system blindly. I will read even the greyed out comments.
  - smichel17 7y ago
    I read using the Android app, "Materialistic" (on f-droid), which doesn't display vote counts. I think it's great -- I pay much more attention to the contents of comments and judge them on merit rather than voted. You can do a similar thing on desktop with ublock origin's cosmetic filtering (right click > block element).
enriquto 7y ago
> Sometimes it's a badge of honor to get a bunch of downvotes. It's validation that a "sacred cow" has been cooked into tasty burgers. I want to express my appreciation for this comment, but I don't know what will make you happier, an upvote or a downvote?
- Intermernet 7y ago
  Do either one, then unvote it!

Intermernet 7y ago

I have showdead turned on and always read the dead comments. Sometimes it's a mystery why they're dead (user isn't banned, not seemingly rude or controversial) and I always think it might have been an accidental swarm of down-voting mis-clicks by just enough random users.

dang 7y ago
Why don't you vouch for them? Vouching is a way for users to rescue [dead] comments that shouldn't be [dead]. Click on the timestamp to go to its page, then click 'vouch' at the top. (There's a small karma threshold for such links to appear.) Comments can be [dead] for many reasons, including software (which doesn't get everything right) or the account being banned (which doesn't mean that every post is bad—indeed, some users start posting good comments only once we've banned them). So there are plenty of good comments that need to be rescued, which is why we introduced vouching in the first place. It works well when users use it.
- NeedMoreTea 7y ago
  Quick question if I can. Have I triggered some evil spammer bit in the system somehow, as I haven't been able to vouch for a while - it no longer rescues anything. Or did it change to need more than one vote? Thanks.
  - dang 7y ago
    Yes, you vouched for too many comments that break the site guidelines, such as personal attacks and flamewars. When an account does that, we eventually notice and take vouching rights away. The feature is for rescuing good comments that are in the spirit of the site, not comments that violate it. We're always happy to restore privileges if people give us reason to believe that they've had a change of heart and want to use HN as intended in the future.
    - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
      Well my first reaction to that is one of amazed disbelief. Personal attacks and flamewars are usually bleeding obvious, and equally easy to avoid. With it having been there a while, I can't think of any specific comments one way or another, but was and have always intended to use it to rescue (typically) a comment making a good point to the discussion, or the question I'd be interested in an answer to as well. So I can't imagine how I crossed whatever line. I generally agree wth the tone of moderation here, and degree of leeway usually given. I think my comment history would bear out in tone and style that I'm using as intended, and I don't recall ever having had a mod pick up any of my comments. :p I disagree with the odd rare one - this is hard to generalise without going away to dig for examples - usually where it seems to get a slap on the wrist for a reasonable, or historically accurate point within the flow of a discussion where the complaint of nationalistic or whatever seems a bit of a stretch. Case in point, the guy posting links that seemed to be reliably going on every climate related topic - I'd have said nowt for one or two, but had seen enough, like on every related post I'd read in a couple of days, that I thought it would have been missed by mods and worth a mention. Others trigger much sooner than I. Make of that as you will. :)