4 ms·

> evolve as a species This seems to be a very American problem. Maybe it's the deep conviction that they are operating as part of a fair system (thanks to it

by leppr 7y ago

> evolve as a species This seems to be a very American problem. Maybe it's the deep conviction that they are operating as part of a fair system (thanks to it having hijacked the name "Democracy") that legitimizes American regulators in their overreach ?

bsder 7y ago
> This seems to be a very American problem. It's a "99% of my financial value is in my house" problem. Once you have that, everybody starts making laws around that. If housing wasn't so much of people's net worth (a la Japan), these issues would be less severe.
- cm2012 7y ago
  I assure you, the Japanese have their own HOA type rules and laws to be annoyed at.
  - ScottBurson 7y ago
    Just a few months ago I read an article about zoning laws in Japan. They have them, but as I recall from the article, they're quite a bit less restrictive than such laws tend to be in the US.
- dredmorbius 7y ago
  I think you've nailed the problem. Any alternate wealth stores you can think of?
  - solveit 7y ago
    Stock, bonds and a small amount of cash? Maybe some in commodities?
    - lotsofpulp 7y ago
      Primary housing let’s everyday people use 5% down, plus the mortgage interest tax deduction, plus the desire to spend extra to be in a good school district (meaning surrounded by others earning as much or more), means people concentrate their wealth in their house.
- NeedMoreTea 7y ago
  The UK seems just as obsessed about property as the US, but there's very little restriction on gardens, none on line drying, lawn mowing or tidiness that I know, just mainly planning restrictions for the house itself, alterations and new build. We have plenty of other stupidities in our systems though. :) The infamous 25' shark through the roof[1] got to stay, despite the local council trying to get rid of it for years. Shark is still there 30 odd years later. The government's final appeal judgement is, surprisingly, perfect and beautiful. [1] https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/17549881.bill-heine-the-story-behind-the-headington-shark/ https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/17549881.bill-heine-the-st...
- pjc50 7y ago
  No, the HOA problem in the US is a legacy of racism. Originally the contracts specified which races you were allowed to sell or let to. That was banned in the civil rights reform, so people went to all sorts of ridiculous proxies for the "wrong sort of person". HOAs are bullies because a noisy minority of people want to be able to get rid of neighbors.
- mcv 7y ago
  Still makes no sense. If planting vegetables in your garden is not allowed, then that's the thing that makes your house less valuable.
- macawfish 7y ago
  Try 1000% for a lot of people, thanks to the magic of debt!
masonic 7y ago
Or maybe certain areas have created rules in response to past experience, such as root vegetables attracting digging pests like raccoons and opossums.
- Faaak 7y ago
  So maybe there was an opossum once, and now you have to forbid vegetables for life ? Owning a house in the suburbs entails getting apossums once or twice a year: it's nature !
  - mcv 7y ago
    If it attracts an actual plague of opossums, I can understand measures to get rid of them, but the occasional opossum shouldn't be a problem if they occur naturally in the area.
    - macawfish 7y ago
      The solution to a plague of possums is coyotes and big cats.
- saalweachter 7y ago
  In general, the front yard / side yard / back yard distinctions are entirely about the "character" of a neighborhood and making it look nice. Most places that have regulations -- at the town or HOA level -- discourage you from doing anything in the front yard besides landscaping. Eg, a shed in a front yard will be forbidden. Usually the restrictions will be more safety based for back and to some extent side yards. It's sort of a "do whatever you want but don't make us look at it" mindset. It will cause the most problems if you build the house far back on the lot (since then you end up with a lot of unusable front yard and a tiny back yard), if your back yard is unusably shaded, if your trying to maximize the use of your small lot to the limits, or if you don't pay attention to the rules and either buy a house without knowing them or do a lot of work that has to be undone.

by leppr 7y ago

bsder 7y ago

> This seems to be a very American problem. It's a "99% of my financial value is in my house" problem. Once you have that, everybody starts making laws around that. If housing wasn't so much of people's net worth (a la Japan), these issues would be less severe.

cm2012 7y ago
I assure you, the Japanese have their own HOA type rules and laws to be annoyed at.
- ScottBurson 7y ago
  Just a few months ago I read an article about zoning laws in Japan. They have them, but as I recall from the article, they're quite a bit less restrictive than such laws tend to be in the US.
dredmorbius 7y ago
I think you've nailed the problem. Any alternate wealth stores you can think of?
- solveit 7y ago
  Stock, bonds and a small amount of cash? Maybe some in commodities?
  - lotsofpulp 7y ago
    Primary housing let’s everyday people use 5% down, plus the mortgage interest tax deduction, plus the desire to spend extra to be in a good school district (meaning surrounded by others earning as much or more), means people concentrate their wealth in their house.
NeedMoreTea 7y ago
The UK seems just as obsessed about property as the US, but there's very little restriction on gardens, none on line drying, lawn mowing or tidiness that I know, just mainly planning restrictions for the house itself, alterations and new build. We have plenty of other stupidities in our systems though. :) The infamous 25' shark through the roof[1] got to stay, despite the local council trying to get rid of it for years. Shark is still there 30 odd years later. The government's final appeal judgement is, surprisingly, perfect and beautiful. [1] https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/17549881.bill-heine-the-story-behind-the-headington-shark/ https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/17549881.bill-heine-the-st...
pjc50 7y ago
No, the HOA problem in the US is a legacy of racism. Originally the contracts specified which races you were allowed to sell or let to. That was banned in the civil rights reform, so people went to all sorts of ridiculous proxies for the "wrong sort of person". HOAs are bullies because a noisy minority of people want to be able to get rid of neighbors.
mcv 7y ago
Still makes no sense. If planting vegetables in your garden is not allowed, then that's the thing that makes your house less valuable.
macawfish 7y ago
Try 1000% for a lot of people, thanks to the magic of debt!

masonic 7y ago

Or maybe certain areas have created rules in response to past experience, such as root vegetables attracting digging pests like raccoons and opossums.

Faaak 7y ago
So maybe there was an opossum once, and now you have to forbid vegetables for life ? Owning a house in the suburbs entails getting apossums once or twice a year: it's nature !
- mcv 7y ago
  If it attracts an actual plague of opossums, I can understand measures to get rid of them, but the occasional opossum shouldn't be a problem if they occur naturally in the area.
  - macawfish 7y ago
    The solution to a plague of possums is coyotes and big cats.
saalweachter 7y ago
In general, the front yard / side yard / back yard distinctions are entirely about the "character" of a neighborhood and making it look nice. Most places that have regulations -- at the town or HOA level -- discourage you from doing anything in the front yard besides landscaping. Eg, a shed in a front yard will be forbidden. Usually the restrictions will be more safety based for back and to some extent side yards. It's sort of a "do whatever you want but don't make us look at it" mindset. It will cause the most problems if you build the house far back on the lot (since then you end up with a lot of unusable front yard and a tiny back yard), if your back yard is unusably shaded, if your trying to maximize the use of your small lot to the limits, or if you don't pay attention to the rules and either buy a house without knowing them or do a lot of work that has to be undone.