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Can we please put to rest that canard that only people who did not drive a Tesla criticize it? Depending on what you want from a car it is entirely possible an

by Fins 7y ago

Can we please put to rest that canard that only people who did not drive a Tesla criticize it? Depending on what you want from a car it is entirely possible and reasonable to discover that while Tesla is the best EV on the market, they do pretty crappy job of being a car as good as one that costs half as much.

btilly 7y ago
It depends on the criticism. This criticism was one that anyone who drives a Tesla should know is BS. That's why I said it. It is the kind of stupid thing that people think when they haven't experienced the car. But if you claim, for example, that the tires wear out too quickly, I'd never question whether you're an actual Tesla driver. (But I would bet money that it is your fault for coming out of your stops heavy on the accelerator...)
- Fins 7y ago
  (sigh) that;'s exactly what I am talking about. I drove a Tesla (not 3, it wasn't even out yet). And you know what? I was not impressed. Sure, it got nice electric torque, but in every other regard, from fit and finish to UX to dynamics to practicality for my usage it was at best unimpressive, considering the price, and at worst just bad. And didn't Elon, in one of his hissy fits with a supplier, drop the cooled seats option -- something you get in a $30K Hyundai? That's exactly why Tesla fanboys (and Tesla, by extension)_ aren't taken too seriously -- no, Elon is not Lord and Savior, and Tesla is not the Second Coming. It's a car, with some nice properties (if you want an EV), some serious shortcomings, and with some greatly deceptive marketing around pricing, savings, FSD etc.
pbreit 7y ago
"they do pretty crappy job of being a car as good as one that costs half as much" I would disagree emphatically with this assertion. The UX in particular seems to have been very thoughtfully considered whereby the few controls that are used frequently get some dedicated buttons and the remainder in the touch screen and/or voice control. The degree of thoughtfulness between Tesla and nearly all other manufacturers is very starkly different.
- Fins 7y ago
  Well, Tesla lovers do seem to believe that recalling a saved seat position from several layers deep in the center screen menu is more convenient that pressing a button on the door, but I will just respectfully disagree here. I suppose there must be some car, somewhere, that is thought out worse (for UX, obviously) than a Tesla, but I haven't seen one.
  - TwoBit 7y ago
    Uh, isn't that one click at the top of the screen? I have a Tesla, fwiw, and to say the UX is the worst just makes me dismiss everything you say. There are a couple things that I don't like (eg turning odd the headlights takes a couple clicks), but after owning one for a few years while also owning a Toyota and Audi, I'll take the Tesla.
    - Fins 7y ago
      Well, I'll take the Audi. And according to someone who was bragging about how great Tesla does it (with all their software updates I will not insist that my experience several years ago is indicative of today's UX) claimed that you need to switch to the right screen, select correct user profile, and press a button from there. And even if it is, in today's software revision, a top-level UI element that's always present, it's still located on the bloody center screen that you can reach only after you've squeezed yourself into the seat. Seriously, I am not really going to take seriously any claims from anyone who says that a touchscreen in a moving vehicle is a good idea. This is an idea that is absolutely ridiculous on its face.
zaroth 7y ago
Quite literally there is nothing that Tesla Model 3 does better, than being a car. Take away all the whiz bang, all the software, the AutoPilot, the dashcam, the dog mode and the arcade games, the massive touch screen and the smartphone app. Touch nothing but the steering wheel, shift wand, accelerator and brake... and drive it fast and hard on a winding summer road. Nothing can touch it, certainly nothing anywhere near its price point, and nothing that you pop the family in comfortably when you’re done. Pretty crappy job. That’s funny!
- Fins 7y ago
  Maybe TM3 is a great improvement over S, which wasn't all that impressive. But there's a little problem -- if you take all of this stuff out you end up with a car that can't even be controlled in any way. I don't think you'd be allowed to drive a car with a steering wheel but no speedometer on a public road. And all of those things are exactly where Tesla... well, sucks. Batteries and motors they do well. Probably better than anyone else at this point. I'll even believe that they figured out how to do suspensions and other automobiley things right. But fit, finish, and that touchscreen on the side, sorry, that's not impressive. And I can think of quite a few quite practical cars that can take twisties as well as TM3 for same or less money, and faster, at that. And with real buttons to control everything.

by Fins 7y ago

btilly 7y ago

It depends on the criticism. This criticism was one that anyone who drives a Tesla should know is BS. That's why I said it. It is the kind of stupid thing that people think when they haven't experienced the car. But if you claim, for example, that the tires wear out too quickly, I'd never question whether you're an actual Tesla driver. (But I would bet money that it is your fault for coming out of your stops heavy on the accelerator...)

Fins 7y ago
(sigh) that;'s exactly what I am talking about. I drove a Tesla (not 3, it wasn't even out yet). And you know what? I was not impressed. Sure, it got nice electric torque, but in every other regard, from fit and finish to UX to dynamics to practicality for my usage it was at best unimpressive, considering the price, and at worst just bad. And didn't Elon, in one of his hissy fits with a supplier, drop the cooled seats option -- something you get in a $30K Hyundai? That's exactly why Tesla fanboys (and Tesla, by extension)_ aren't taken too seriously -- no, Elon is not Lord and Savior, and Tesla is not the Second Coming. It's a car, with some nice properties (if you want an EV), some serious shortcomings, and with some greatly deceptive marketing around pricing, savings, FSD etc.

pbreit 7y ago

"they do pretty crappy job of being a car as good as one that costs half as much" I would disagree emphatically with this assertion. The UX in particular seems to have been very thoughtfully considered whereby the few controls that are used frequently get some dedicated buttons and the remainder in the touch screen and/or voice control. The degree of thoughtfulness between Tesla and nearly all other manufacturers is very starkly different.

Fins 7y ago
Well, Tesla lovers do seem to believe that recalling a saved seat position from several layers deep in the center screen menu is more convenient that pressing a button on the door, but I will just respectfully disagree here. I suppose there must be some car, somewhere, that is thought out worse (for UX, obviously) than a Tesla, but I haven't seen one.
- TwoBit 7y ago
  Uh, isn't that one click at the top of the screen? I have a Tesla, fwiw, and to say the UX is the worst just makes me dismiss everything you say. There are a couple things that I don't like (eg turning odd the headlights takes a couple clicks), but after owning one for a few years while also owning a Toyota and Audi, I'll take the Tesla.
  - Fins 7y ago
    Well, I'll take the Audi. And according to someone who was bragging about how great Tesla does it (with all their software updates I will not insist that my experience several years ago is indicative of today's UX) claimed that you need to switch to the right screen, select correct user profile, and press a button from there. And even if it is, in today's software revision, a top-level UI element that's always present, it's still located on the bloody center screen that you can reach only after you've squeezed yourself into the seat. Seriously, I am not really going to take seriously any claims from anyone who says that a touchscreen in a moving vehicle is a good idea. This is an idea that is absolutely ridiculous on its face.

zaroth 7y ago

Quite literally there is nothing that Tesla Model 3 does better, than being a car. Take away all the whiz bang, all the software, the AutoPilot, the dashcam, the dog mode and the arcade games, the massive touch screen and the smartphone app. Touch nothing but the steering wheel, shift wand, accelerator and brake... and drive it fast and hard on a winding summer road. Nothing can touch it, certainly nothing anywhere near its price point, and nothing that you pop the family in comfortably when you’re done. Pretty crappy job. That’s funny!

Fins 7y ago
Maybe TM3 is a great improvement over S, which wasn't all that impressive. But there's a little problem -- if you take all of this stuff out you end up with a car that can't even be controlled in any way. I don't think you'd be allowed to drive a car with a steering wheel but no speedometer on a public road. And all of those things are exactly where Tesla... well, sucks. Batteries and motors they do well. Probably better than anyone else at this point. I'll even believe that they figured out how to do suspensions and other automobiley things right. But fit, finish, and that touchscreen on the side, sorry, that's not impressive. And I can think of quite a few quite practical cars that can take twisties as well as TM3 for same or less money, and faster, at that. And with real buttons to control everything.