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Brit here, so I don't really understand lobbying in the US, and how such huge sums of money can be involved without blatant corruption - googling reveals ~3.4 b

Brit here, so I don't really understand lobbying in the US, and how such huge sums of money can be involved without blatant corruption - googling reveals ~3.4 billion USD spent on lobbying during 2018. Let's say I'm Boeing and I pay a lobbying firm 15M USD - what happens next? Where does the money go?

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
Ididntdothis 7y ago
A good lobbyist will help drafting laws or regulations and bring them in front of lawmakers. A lot of laws are written directly by lobbyists. They may also start a PR campaign for your case.
- Monroe13 7y ago
  In many instances spending on PR campaigns does not necessarily need to be disclosed as a lobbying expense. Money spent on influencing policy greatly exceeds what’s reported on lobbying disclosure reports.
- mattigames 7y ago
  The language we use tends to shape our views, having that in mind "good lobbyist" is an oxymoron, is like saying "good mass murderer", it's better say "effective lobbyist" or similar wording that can't be confused with a moral judgement.
  - Symmetry 7y ago
    So, I've donated money to the Nature Conservancy and the ACLU both with the intent that they would engage in lobbying on my behalf, both of which I consider to be "good lobbying".
    - mattigames 7y ago
      Nah, is good only in a very narrow specific sense but is still damaging in the big scheme of things; by perpetuating the "lobbying-based-democracy" instead of trying to achieve actual democracy (as in vote for nature conservancy, vote for better education, etc)
rjurney 7y ago
And over 1 billion of that was pharmaceutical companies. Wonder if that has any side effects?
undersuit 7y ago
I think a good example of lobbying that we should avoid is that done by TransparentBusiness and those they hired. They sponsored similarly written legislation in almost half the state legislatures of the US this year. The legislation was written in such a way that the only software that could fulfill the requirements was the companies' own. https://statescoop.com/nationwide-lobbying-push-for-contractor-monitoring-software-alarms-state-cios/ https://statescoop.com/nationwide-lobbying-push-for-contract...
pkaye 7y ago
Lobbying is legalized corruption. Corporations are considered people. People have freedom of speech and rights to influence public policy. Only thing we are missing is a death penalty for corporations like that exists for normal people.
- tathougies 7y ago
  Corporations can be disbanded by court order. Stop with the lies: https://info.legalzoom.com/happens-shareholder-dissolved-corporation-21095.html https://info.legalzoom.com/happens-shareholder-dissolved-cor...
  - dredmorbius 7y ago
    What's the rate at which such penalties are imposed?
Monroe13 7y ago
At the federal level, the money funds both staff — usually registered lobbyists, communications staff and administrative support — and outside consultants. Boeing spent $3 million on 16 different consulting firms. The other $12 million went to in-house staff and “lobbying-related expenses” incurred by staff. None of this money goes to politicians or to political campaigns — that is a completely different beast — and it does not include advertising or PR campaigns that obliquely influence policy makers. The team of in-house and outside lobbyists do a number of things including monitoring legislation, writing internal position papers laying out the company’s arguments for and against legislation, briefing execs on changing rules, organizing visits from execs, and participating in strategy sessions with trade associations. Most importantly they try to exert influence. The most direct way is through meeting with congressional staff and regulators. These meetings are fairly easy to come by — anyone can call a Congressional office and request a meeting on an issue(and more citizens should!), but in most instances you will get shunted to a low level staffer who politely listens to your plea and takes notes. But, in the case of Big Business, that $3 million you spend in consultants brings with it some very deep rolodexes. They can get meetings with Chiefs of Staff, Chief Counsels, and sometimes directly with members of Congress so you can go to a Senate office and have a deep discussion about a specific piece of legislation. You can articulate how the legislation will impact your business, the economy at large, or the Senator’s constituents. You can propose new legislative language. Your team of lawyers can show the underpaid, overworked staffer all the loopholes he’s unknowingly introducing. You can propose a “carve out” to protect some special group (e.g. “Companies that spend $X in R&D should be exempt from provision Y”). There are many other ways in which lobbyists try to get the ear of Congress, but the above encapsulates a significant portion of the spend you see in lobbying disclosure reports.
- GordonS 7y ago
  Thanks, this is a really insightful response! > They can get meetings with Chiefs of Staff, Chief Counsels, and sometimes directly with members of Congress so you can go to a Senate office But how? Is it simply that the lobbyists make plain who they are representing and the government people involved know a lot of tax dollars are potentially at stake, or is it something more skullduggerous? $15M is a lot of money, so Boeing obviously feels it's worth it; maybe I'm being too cynical, but I just can't see how unless there is something underhand afoot.
refurb 7y ago
Think of lobbying firm like hiring a consultant. You might pay them $1M to do research on a particular policy that is beneficial/detrimental to your business. That same firm will then put together a polish presentation or proposed language for legislation and get it in front of politicians where it makes a difference. It's certainly not "Google hired this firm for $1M and they have $900K in donations to a politicians election fund". That's illegal. A good example (that another poster mentioned) are organizations like the ACLU. They raise money and use it to lobby the government to get pro-ACLU laws written.
Camas 7y ago
The US has a much larger population and is the largest economy in the world. It would be unusual if lobbying there wasn't much larger.
a3n 7y ago
> I don't really understand lobbying in the US, and how such huge sums of money can be involved without blatant corruption. At best, lobbying is bribery with a facade of conversation. At worst it's extortion. The corruption is baked in either way.
rayiner 7y ago
The money goes to making PowerPoint presentations and white papers. $3.4 billion sounds like a lot, but you have to understand just how huge the US economy is. The US legal services industry generated $260 billion in revenue in 2018. That’s just money for paying lawyers. That’s 10% the GDP of the UK (but only 1.4% of the GDP of the US). Lobbying is very similar to legal work, and often is done by lawyers. Highly trained professionals take often very complicated domain issues and distill them into terms politicians and their staff can understand. (Typically, the politician, as a matter of ideology, already supports the position the company is espousing. The purpose of the lobbying then is to arm the politician with data and legal arguments to support that position and counter the data and arguments offered by the opposition.) Producing a single document can cost tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

Ididntdothis 7y ago

A good lobbyist will help drafting laws or regulations and bring them in front of lawmakers. A lot of laws are written directly by lobbyists. They may also start a PR campaign for your case.

Monroe13 7y ago
In many instances spending on PR campaigns does not necessarily need to be disclosed as a lobbying expense. Money spent on influencing policy greatly exceeds what’s reported on lobbying disclosure reports.
mattigames 7y ago
The language we use tends to shape our views, having that in mind "good lobbyist" is an oxymoron, is like saying "good mass murderer", it's better say "effective lobbyist" or similar wording that can't be confused with a moral judgement.
- Symmetry 7y ago
  So, I've donated money to the Nature Conservancy and the ACLU both with the intent that they would engage in lobbying on my behalf, both of which I consider to be "good lobbying".
  - mattigames 7y ago
    Nah, is good only in a very narrow specific sense but is still damaging in the big scheme of things; by perpetuating the "lobbying-based-democracy" instead of trying to achieve actual democracy (as in vote for nature conservancy, vote for better education, etc)

rjurney 7y ago

And over 1 billion of that was pharmaceutical companies. Wonder if that has any side effects?

undersuit 7y ago

I think a good example of lobbying that we should avoid is that done by TransparentBusiness and those they hired. They sponsored similarly written legislation in almost half the state legislatures of the US this year. The legislation was written in such a way that the only software that could fulfill the requirements was the companies' own. https://statescoop.com/nationwide-lobbying-push-for-contractor-monitoring-software-alarms-state-cios/ https://statescoop.com/nationwide-lobbying-push-for-contract...

pkaye 7y ago

Lobbying is legalized corruption. Corporations are considered people. People have freedom of speech and rights to influence public policy. Only thing we are missing is a death penalty for corporations like that exists for normal people.

tathougies 7y ago
Corporations can be disbanded by court order. Stop with the lies: https://info.legalzoom.com/happens-shareholder-dissolved-corporation-21095.html https://info.legalzoom.com/happens-shareholder-dissolved-cor...
- dredmorbius 7y ago
  What's the rate at which such penalties are imposed?

Monroe13 7y ago

At the federal level, the money funds both staff — usually registered lobbyists, communications staff and administrative support — and outside consultants. Boeing spent $3 million on 16 different consulting firms. The other $12 million went to in-house staff and “lobbying-related expenses” incurred by staff. None of this money goes to politicians or to political campaigns — that is a completely different beast — and it does not include advertising or PR campaigns that obliquely influence policy makers. The team of in-house and outside lobbyists do a number of things including monitoring legislation, writing internal position papers laying out the company’s arguments for and against legislation, briefing execs on changing rules, organizing visits from execs, and participating in strategy sessions with trade associations. Most importantly they try to exert influence. The most direct way is through meeting with congressional staff and regulators. These meetings are fairly easy to come by — anyone can call a Congressional office and request a meeting on an issue(and more citizens should!), but in most instances you will get shunted to a low level staffer who politely listens to your plea and takes notes. But, in the case of Big Business, that $3 million you spend in consultants brings with it some very deep rolodexes. They can get meetings with Chiefs of Staff, Chief Counsels, and sometimes directly with members of Congress so you can go to a Senate office and have a deep discussion about a specific piece of legislation. You can articulate how the legislation will impact your business, the economy at large, or the Senator’s constituents. You can propose new legislative language. Your team of lawyers can show the underpaid, overworked staffer all the loopholes he’s unknowingly introducing. You can propose a “carve out” to protect some special group (e.g. “Companies that spend $X in R&D should be exempt from provision Y”). There are many other ways in which lobbyists try to get the ear of Congress, but the above encapsulates a significant portion of the spend you see in lobbying disclosure reports.

GordonS 7y ago
Thanks, this is a really insightful response! > They can get meetings with Chiefs of Staff, Chief Counsels, and sometimes directly with members of Congress so you can go to a Senate office But how? Is it simply that the lobbyists make plain who they are representing and the government people involved know a lot of tax dollars are potentially at stake, or is it something more skullduggerous? $15M is a lot of money, so Boeing obviously feels it's worth it; maybe I'm being too cynical, but I just can't see how unless there is something underhand afoot.

refurb 7y ago

Think of lobbying firm like hiring a consultant. You might pay them $1M to do research on a particular policy that is beneficial/detrimental to your business. That same firm will then put together a polish presentation or proposed language for legislation and get it in front of politicians where it makes a difference. It's certainly not "Google hired this firm for $1M and they have $900K in donations to a politicians election fund". That's illegal. A good example (that another poster mentioned) are organizations like the ACLU. They raise money and use it to lobby the government to get pro-ACLU laws written.

Camas 7y ago

The US has a much larger population and is the largest economy in the world. It would be unusual if lobbying there wasn't much larger.

a3n 7y ago

> I don't really understand lobbying in the US, and how such huge sums of money can be involved without blatant corruption. At best, lobbying is bribery with a facade of conversation. At worst it's extortion. The corruption is baked in either way.

rayiner 7y ago

The money goes to making PowerPoint presentations and white papers. $3.4 billion sounds like a lot, but you have to understand just how huge the US economy is. The US legal services industry generated $260 billion in revenue in 2018. That’s just money for paying lawyers. That’s 10% the GDP of the UK (but only 1.4% of the GDP of the US). Lobbying is very similar to legal work, and often is done by lawyers. Highly trained professionals take often very complicated domain issues and distill them into terms politicians and their staff can understand. (Typically, the politician, as a matter of ideology, already supports the position the company is espousing. The purpose of the lobbying then is to arm the politician with data and legal arguments to support that position and counter the data and arguments offered by the opposition.) Producing a single document can cost tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars.