11 ms·

Yeah, I've rented latest-model Renault and Peugeot cars in Europe and I cannot believe this stuff. It's probably same in new North American vehicles, but I hav

• fwip 7y ago
  Teslas also do that, but I don't know about other lane assist systems.
  • danpat 7y ago
    The cruise control on our Subaru seems to behave like you’d expect here. If someone cuts in front of you going roughly the same speed, it backs off a bit to open up some space, but doesn’t slam on the brakes because someone is close.
  • ansible 7y ago
    On the Toyota Prius (2016-) you can have the lane departure warning on, while turning off the steering assist. The steering assist was one of the first things I turned off on it, otherwise it might activate literally every time I drive home. There's also construction all over the place, so... yeah. I pity someone stepping into one of these cars for the first time with this feature enabled.
    • dorfsmay 7y ago
      Lane(Lane assist does fell like it's trying to kill you! There are times where I don't want to be in the middle of the lane, like when passing a truck on a windy day
      • virgilp 7y ago
        What do you mean? Lane assist software is so good&safe, that Boeing put it in one of it's planes!
    • spockz 7y ago
      This can be disabled in Ford’a S-MAX as well. (Unsurprising because these systems all we provided by Bosch and co.). I turned it off when it almost ran into the car next to me at the toll booth because of the lines on the roads before the toll booth that nobody follows.
  • brokenmachine 7y ago
    That's not very encouraging for their "fully self driving" hopes and dreams.
    • lrem 7y ago
      Google's Chaffeur would be the only car I would let self drive in the near future, for two reasons: 1. It would only drive at speeds where a head on would not hurt passengers. 2. In case of any certainty loss it would pull over. Unfortunately, it got the axe (in favour of partnerships). Fully self driving sports car, without a bazillion miles of proper learning data (where the ai was continuously in charge at speeds similar to the discussed ones) sounds way outside my comfort limits.
      • brokenmachine 7y ago
        >Fully self driving sports car, without a bazillion miles of proper learning data (where the ai was continuously in charge at speeds similar to the discussed ones) sounds way outside my comfort limits. I feel the same. If Tesla gets their way, they could be on the roads posing a risk to us more cautious types regardless. Talk of corruption aside, if Boeing can't get it right with a gazillion dollars and no bad roads or unpredictable traffic, I don't trust Tesla to be able to do it safely.
• zoomablemind 7y ago
  I'm not sure how much the UI is indeed at play here, rather than the User's state. The keyword here is 'rental'. This seems to just amplify grumpiness. Picking a rented car, I normally don't spend much effort trying to figure out all features. Just basics - adjust the seat, the mirrors, reset the trip, rarely link up the phone. Touch-n-go. It always gets irritating later, as I would try to figure some needed feature while already on the go. Climate, radio, what's that beeping, which side is the fuel port (while already pulling to the pump), the curiously long-lasting parfum on the seat-belt from the previous renter at times triggering unexpected memories... I guess, it's just a mild form of self-inflicted road rage. RTFM would be an easy answer, but we all know how that works out.
  • jacobolus 7y ago
    > which side is the fuel port Note that most cars have a little arrow on the dashboard next to the fuel gauge showing which side the fuel tank is on.
    • ygra 7y ago
      Not most cars I've seen so far, but most filling stations also have hoses long enough to reach around the car, so unless you drive a battleship or a tank, it doesn't really matter.
      • kurtisc 7y ago
        There's a station near me that just opened. Pay at pump, pumps only on one side. 'Surely' I thought, as I pulled up, 'the hoses will reach the other side'. They didn't. So I got out to move my hatchback car closer and angled so they would reach. I unhooked the pump and put it in my car. But first it asked me to pay my bill of £0.
      • jacobolus 7y ago
        > Not most cars I've seen so far Do you have an example? Every rental car I have tried in the past decade had this. At least 10–15 different models from a variety of different manufacturers.
• deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
• rebuilder 7y ago
  Lane assists and emergency braking assists are going to be mandatory safety features in the EU from 2022. I sure hope they are not required to be always on, because my experience with Opel's collision detection has been that it's more likely to cause accidents than avert them. Like you described, suddenly losing power at highway speeds is really confusing, especially when you're driving an Ampera with the regen braking in the more aggressive mode. It will lose speed fast, and the first time it happens, you will spend several seconds figuring out that the cruise control has been turned off because the system got confused by a truck in the other lane, somehow.
  • zvrba 7y ago
    > I sure hope they are not required to be always on, because my experience with Opel's collision detection has been that it's more likely to cause accidents than avert them. A couple of years ago I rented some Toyota which had collision warning. I got on the exit from the highway, it was a big round swing with high, thin marker poles by the sides. The car suddenly started to emit a maddening high-pitch beeping tone that scared the shit out of me. I hit the brakes to slow down to snail speed (fortunately, there was nobody behind me) and then I figured out on the display that it was collision warning. The next thing I did is to read the user manual and disabled the shit. > Lane assists and emergency braking assists are going to be mandatory safety features in the EU from 2022. WTF?! We should make a website collecting all stories of almost-accidents due to these features.
    • F_r_k 7y ago
      And for the sake of it, make a website collecting all the lives saved thanks to it (I'm thinking of the Netherlands schoolboy who'd had been crushed by the truck without it)
    • wongarsu 7y ago
      When those features are mandatory their performance will be just another thing talked about in car magazines or when talking with friends about the experience with your car. A particularly good or bad implementation might significantly impact sales, so I expect lots of improvements in teh coming years.
• petre 7y ago
  The C3 Aircross we have rented last year was okay besides the 1.2L 85 HP engine being absolute crap. Economic yes, but with the acceleration pedal bottomed the car was struggling to overtake a truck or climb a hill. I don't have this problem with my Suzuki which has a weaker 65 HP engine.
  • seszett 7y ago
    A 1.2L is meant for city driving rather than country driving, and it's just fine for that. There are much better engines available for the C3 aircross, so you just didn't get one that was appropriate I'm afraid. For some reason rental companies always seem to try to give you underpowered cars no matter where, I'm not sure why since they do have better ones which are also more expensive so they're not losing money renting them.
    • petre 7y ago
      Not the case with VW or Seat 1L or 1.2L TSI engines at 115 and 110 HP. They have six speed gearboxes and supercharged 3 or 4 piston engines on entry level Polo, Golf and Leon models. With two people in the vehicle it climbs well, it runs okay on the highway although with high fuel consumption, it overtakes okay and runs economically in the city. The 1.5 TSI runs faster and burns even less fuel on the highway but it's considerably more expensive.
      • thirdsun 7y ago
        Agreed. I'm driving a 1.2L TSI Polo, although with 90 HP. It's a fine, well-rounded, affordable car that feels snappy enough. Plus, I think the UX is quite alright - it uses a touch screen, but primary functions are covered by physical buttons and controls. I'm also hearing nothing but good things about Ford's 1.0L EcoBoost engines. So it's certainly not a question of volume/size alone.
        • consp 7y ago
          I have a 1l ecoboost and it is quite snappy when you get up to speed. There just isn't enough volume to get off the line quickly but with 4 people cramped up they still work pretty well even at autobahn speeds (at least if you have the 125hp model). Quite fuel efficient as well if you stay below 120kph.
• fnordsensei 7y ago
  If, like a desktop computer, it was mostly consistent across the board, it wouldn't be so bad. I have to learn how to use three operating systems to be able to use very nearly all computers in the world. Car UIs can be wildly inconsistent even for the same brand.
• benj111 7y ago
  "cruise control", "can I please be the driver of the vehicle?" Aren't these 2 things mutually exclusive? If you want to drive, turn off the cruise control? Or is this an always on 'feature'?
  • yakshaving_jgt 7y ago
    Cruise control is not autopilot. Cruise control is just "please maintain the current speed with no further throttle input from me, until I do decide to provide throttle or braking input". The driver is still absolutely in control of the vehicle with cruise control enabled.
    • benj111 7y ago
      So you would say that braking to maintain distance to the car in front isnt part of cruise control? Because that's what we are talking about. I don't think cruise control has to include active braking, if the feature is included, and from what the GP is suggesting, is activated with the cruise control, isnt it part of cruise control.
      • tremon 7y ago
        braking to maintain distance to the car in front isnt part of cruise control? Yes, that isn't part of regular cruise control. It's called "cruising", not "driving in traffic". These systems have been around since the 60s, far longer than automotive sensors have existed. The part where the car actually responds to the movement of cars around them is a new thing (only available for ten years or so), and is called adaptive cruise control.
        • benj111 7y ago
          To me adaptive cruise control is cruise control. As I said cruise control doesn't have to have active braking because as you point out cruise control predates active braking. To me its analogous to a graphics card in a computer, a computer doesn't have to contain a graphics card, after all the computer predates the graphics card. Nevertheless you wouldn't argue that a graphics card in a computer isnt part of the computer.
• txdv 7y ago
  [x] More expensive, [x] less usable, they sure hit all the right check boxes.
• skgoa 7y ago
  And this, right here, is the reason why people buy expensive german cars.
• leokennis 7y ago
  I hate Peugeots with a passion (only rented them). Even the smallest of their cars sound like a tractor. Build quality is hilarious, huge gaps between panels both in- and outside. Huge deadzone on the steering wheel and pedals, and no feel for the road. The clutch pedal is nice and roomy but the gas pedal is a slippery and the size of a penny. They are probably cheap and are all driven by seniors who wouldn't notice the difference with a proper car anyway. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TnGjq9mWSI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TnGjq9mWSI > very accurate.
  • geff82 7y ago
    Have you driven one of their current model lineup? It seems to me that they really improved things recently (and judging from what I see on the roads, especially the new 3008 seems to really resonate with buyers).
    • robotmay 7y ago
      I drove a new rental Peugeot (207 or something?) last year, wasn't actually bad at all. The interior no longer feels like they got the plastic from biscuit packets, at least.
    • leokennis 7y ago
      Most of my experiences described are actually based of the 2008 I drove last year (that one I drove for 2 weeks)... I do not mean to sound pedantic, but a lot of shitty products "resonate with buyers". Squeaky laptops with stamp-sized trackpads come to mind. I think the resonating is mainly related to price. Like those laptops, Peugeots are probably good value for many. That does not however negate, that they are also shitty cars... (For reference, my own car is a 2010 Honda Jazz (Honda Fitt in the US), so I'm not comparing a Peugeot to a luxury Mercedes sedan or something...it's just that the Honda seems to be a car people actually though about before they started building it)
      • geff82 7y ago
        Haha, yes the 2008 is really bad. Looks ok from the outside, but that is about it. The 3008 is not cheap, I think people buy it for the expressive style and the great comfort. So "resonate" is not meant as "resonate because of low price". Also, the new 508 and the upcoming 208 seem to be amazing cars. Give them a chance in a year :)
• jamiethompson 7y ago
  I recently overheard someone talking about how the lane assist in their new car tried to stop them from safely passing a cyclist. It tried to force them to stay in the lane. As a cyclist it made me wonder how many of the close-passes I experience, where drivers just full on don't change course and blast past me with inches to spare, are actually due to the car not wanting the driver to move out of the lane.
  • cjrp 7y ago
    The lane assist in my car (Skoda/VAG) has that behaviour, but only if you're not indicating.
    • jamiethompson 7y ago
      That'll be what it is. In my experience as a cyclist it's unusual for drivers to indicate to overtake a cyclist even when do do move fully over into the other lane.
  • throw0101a 7y ago
    > It tried to force them to stay in the lane. I think this is because the driver was being a bit lazy and didn't bother turning on the signal. If you indicate intent, then the system won't think you're messing up. But a lot of folks simply half-change lanes when passing cyclists and then go back. As a motorcyclist the half-change is annoying since (a) you're blocking both lanes, and (b) if they did a full lane change I could zip past since I can fit quite comfortably next to the bicyclist.
    • Starwatcher2001 7y ago
      Am I misunderstanding something here? You want a car driver to pull into the outer lane so that you can undertake him between the cycle and car? I'm a biker and that sounds suicidal to me. The drivers next move would be to move back into the inner lane, right into you. I've got no problem with your complaint about them half-changing and blocking both lanes, it's the concept of nipping between them, knowing full-well their next move will be back in.
• fps_doug 7y ago
  Never been in such a car, but just reading this drives me mad. How can things go that wrong in pretty much every regard? Sorry for this ranty attitude right now but how do so many things that we technically figured out perfectly get shittier and shittier? We fortunately slowly come to realize how important automated testing, integration tests etc. are to make software development better and faster in the long run, but do we in turn just stop thinking about if what we're currently doing actually makes sense? Take a step back for a second? I don't want to be the crazy guy shouting more regulation every time something goes wrong, but I really wonder if we're in need for some up to date rules about what makes a car safe for traffic and what doesn't that specifically has UX in mind. Entirely ban touch screens or buttons with no tactile feedback from cars for example. Today you have dash gauges that lag behind by a second. If the trend continues, by tomorrow we have software driven AI cloud based brakes that are delayed by a second or two.
  • rv-de 7y ago
    Maybe a case of making your mark as a designer by hunting for seemingly low hanging fruits. So every newly hired designer will try to get some of his ideas squeezed into a new model. Instead of a conservative approach less "revolutionary" approach. At least that's my theory for why UX of almost anything nowadays seems to decline with every iteration.
  • throwaway23057 7y ago
    How about social decay? Would Renault's management in the sixties have accepted this level of incompetence?
  • userbinator 7y ago
    I suspect it's a case of the "designers" being addicted to the "new and fresh" paradigm and not caring about anything but trying to redesign everything they can. I'm not a fan of regulation either, but I have a feeling that if the operation of the steering wheel or pedals weren't standardised, we'd have even crazier car UIs with their own self-consistent-but-globally-inconsistent designs. ("Turn the steering wheel clockwise to make a left turn --- because you're changing the view in the windscreen, not the content behind it!") The regulation that required the shift quadrant to be in the PRNDL order many decades ago seems almost quaint in comparison: https://jalopnik.com/why-prndl-5870701 https://jalopnik.com/why-prndl-5870701 (...and as the mentions about the horrible Jeep shifter in the other comments here allude to, maybe that regulation has laxed over the years.)
• vsl 7y ago
  I recently rented a new VW Polo. Its collision avoidance system beeped at me constantly with false positives in situations when I couldn’t even figure out what on Earth triggered it. Like on a wide and deserted road in the middle of nowhere. And when once I missed that a car in front of us suddenly slowed down to make a turn and nearly hit it, it was my passenger who yelled at me to swerve. The CAS didn’t even notice the one situation it was designed for. It took just a day of driving to learn to ignore that sound. It is utter crap. My regular driver is a Tesla. Say what you will about it, but the CAS in it is freaking reliable, to the point that when I hear the warning I reflexively brake, before assessing the situation - which is the point, saving milliseconds. It has false positives too, but rarely and in situations where I can immediately see why (like going zig-zag between parallel parked cars on both sides of a narrow road). These assists will become mandatory in EU, in a complete legislative disconnect from the reality of state of the art of European manufacturers.