4 ms·

I know this is just going to be an opportunity for someone to post the "first they came for the <blank> and I didn't speak out because I wasn't <blank>" copyast

I know this is just going to be an opportunity for someone to post the "first they came for the <blank> and I didn't speak out because I wasn't <blank>" copyasta, but.. I wish the only people fighting against censorship by trying to build their own platforms weren't actual white supremacists and bad-faith pseudo-intellectual charlatans. (Note, I"m only placing Peterson in the second category. He's not a white supremacist. He IS however a reductive, regressive male-supremacist, wearing the mask of a classic liberal free speech advocate). He claims to fight for a free marketplace of ideas, but only because his religious conservative dogma about men, women, gay marriage, and trans people does not hold up to scrutiny, and people have gotten tired of debating him. Let's be clear: * Google and YouTube do not owe the internet the right to access to an expensive video hosting content platform. They are a business and they are free to prioritize the content that enables them to make money * ThinkSpot has two agendas - one to promote "unpopular" free speech ideas in a "safe space" free from criticism, which is hilariously ironic. Two - to make Jordan Peterson money. If you don't think that's part of the goal, you haven't been paying attention to all of his Patreon activity and motivations for the last several years. These are not the droids we are looking for. What is the alternative? Honestly, here is a hot take: Kazaa We need to get back to distributed peer-to-peer file hosting. But this time with more security, encryption, access control, categorization of content that you can choose to host on your node.

mAEStro-paNDa 7y ago
This is probably one of the more sound takes on both ThinkSpot and the right way to address what is happening on these massive platforms. Thanks for this.
jquery 7y ago
I've been saying for a while that we'll get to the point where anyone fighting for Free Speech will get painted as a racist because the censors will claim "free speech is a racist idea" and it appears we're pretty close. How much of our classic liberty are we willing to lose in the pursuit of tribalism? The retort I hear when I complain about censorship is "haha you conservatives used to love the free market", not realizing not everyone who supports free speech and is anti-corporate is a conservative! EDIT: These corporations cynically manipulated society's tribalistic nature to impose something that should've had bipartisan opposition. The good news about things like this is it's a great way to develop that bipartisan opposition, many people who've been wearing blinders will say, "hey wait a minute, that's my voice you're shutting down, and I'm not a bad person." EDIT 2: I'm not here to defend Jordan Peterson or white supremacists. Just saying that moves like this will at least drive more than just two kinds of people away from YouTube, which was "people who love liberty and white supremacists" which of course makes the liberty people miserable.
- deanCommie 7y ago
  I think that's unnecessarily alarmist. Nobody is saying "Free Speech is a racist idea. However, Free Speech OF racist ideas is a racist idea.
  - jquery 7y ago
    In the age where people like Ben Shapiro are identified as "alt-right white supremacists" I don't have much confidence in the ability of people to identify racist content. Here's a post where I go into more thinking on the matter that doesn't need to be repeated here - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20184914 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20184914
    - root_axis 7y ago
      > Israelis like to build. Arabs like to bomb crap and live in open sewage. This is not a difficult issue. That sounds pretty racist to me.
    - deanCommie 7y ago
      Ben Shapiro was the most popular role model for Alexandre Bissonette, a very clear alt-right white supremacist[1]. Before you dismiss Shapiro's responsibility in stoking these ideals, you should watch this in-depth breakdown of his perspectives and ideals[2]. I know it's a lot to ask to watch an hour long youtube video, but it is thorough to dot all the i's and cross all the t's. Shapiro even stokes anti-semitic rhetoric by distinguishing between "ethnic jews" (The Woody Allens of the world, but more broadly liberal hollywood elite jews) and "cultural/religious jews" (Morally-clear good-minded folk like himself). The video covers it. This is how he reconciles his alt-right allies who are anti-semitic and white nationalist, yet use Shapiro as a shield to protect their heinous opinions. And this is before we get to any of his perspectives on arabs, which another commenter already addressed. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/04/18/quebec-city-mosque-shooter-scoured-twitter-for-trump-right-wing-figures-before-attack/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.c3919e791261 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/04/18... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDMjgOYOcDw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDMjgOYOcDw

mAEStro-paNDa 7y ago

This is probably one of the more sound takes on both ThinkSpot and the right way to address what is happening on these massive platforms. Thanks for this.

jquery 7y ago

I've been saying for a while that we'll get to the point where anyone fighting for Free Speech will get painted as a racist because the censors will claim "free speech is a racist idea" and it appears we're pretty close. How much of our classic liberty are we willing to lose in the pursuit of tribalism? The retort I hear when I complain about censorship is "haha you conservatives used to love the free market", not realizing not everyone who supports free speech and is anti-corporate is a conservative! EDIT: These corporations cynically manipulated society's tribalistic nature to impose something that should've had bipartisan opposition. The good news about things like this is it's a great way to develop that bipartisan opposition, many people who've been wearing blinders will say, "hey wait a minute, that's my voice you're shutting down, and I'm not a bad person." EDIT 2: I'm not here to defend Jordan Peterson or white supremacists. Just saying that moves like this will at least drive more than just two kinds of people away from YouTube, which was "people who love liberty and white supremacists" which of course makes the liberty people miserable.

deanCommie 7y ago
I think that's unnecessarily alarmist. Nobody is saying "Free Speech is a racist idea. However, Free Speech OF racist ideas is a racist idea.
- jquery 7y ago
  In the age where people like Ben Shapiro are identified as "alt-right white supremacists" I don't have much confidence in the ability of people to identify racist content. Here's a post where I go into more thinking on the matter that doesn't need to be repeated here - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20184914 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20184914
  - root_axis 7y ago
    > Israelis like to build. Arabs like to bomb crap and live in open sewage. This is not a difficult issue. That sounds pretty racist to me.
  - deanCommie 7y ago
    Ben Shapiro was the most popular role model for Alexandre Bissonette, a very clear alt-right white supremacist[1]. Before you dismiss Shapiro's responsibility in stoking these ideals, you should watch this in-depth breakdown of his perspectives and ideals[2]. I know it's a lot to ask to watch an hour long youtube video, but it is thorough to dot all the i's and cross all the t's. Shapiro even stokes anti-semitic rhetoric by distinguishing between "ethnic jews" (The Woody Allens of the world, but more broadly liberal hollywood elite jews) and "cultural/religious jews" (Morally-clear good-minded folk like himself). The video covers it. This is how he reconciles his alt-right allies who are anti-semitic and white nationalist, yet use Shapiro as a shield to protect their heinous opinions. And this is before we get to any of his perspectives on arabs, which another commenter already addressed. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/04/18/quebec-city-mosque-shooter-scoured-twitter-for-trump-right-wing-figures-before-attack/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.c3919e791261 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/04/18... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDMjgOYOcDw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDMjgOYOcDw