4 ms·

This might depend on what you consider a “regular bank” but every bank and exchange I’ve ever come into contact with requires documentation and vetting to ensur

by hjk05 7y ago

This might depend on what you consider a “regular bank” but every bank and exchange I’ve ever come into contact with requires documentation and vetting to ensure that I am who I say I am and that I’m not not laundering money, and if the police come with a warrant they get everything they ask for. I think you might be thinking of specific banks and shell company schemes in Panama and not what most people would describe as a regular bank.

aNoob7000 7y ago
Bank Secrecy Act (BSA) and Know Your Customer (KYC). I'm going out on a limb to say that most tech companies have no idea what BSA or KYC means and the paperwork involved.
- mintiquity 7y ago
  Facebook already knows more about you than KYC requires. That said, according to Forbes (https://www.forbes.com/sites/francescoppola/2019/06/30/the-real-threat-from-facebooks-libra-coin https://www.forbes.com/sites/francescoppola/2019/06/30/the-r...), they'll comply with KYC/AML. I can't find a statement direct from Facebook on that, though.
  - aNoob7000 7y ago
    Facebook only knows what I put into my Facebook registration form. Did they verify anything? No. Email me for government identification? No. Can Facebook comply with KYC/AML type regulations? Yes. But that I'm aware of, they currently don't do anything of the sort with all their users.
    - bradstewart 7y ago
      They know what you put in the registration form, every device and IP address you've ever used, who your friends are, who you parents are, who your coworkers are, what websites you visit, what stores you shop at, who you're likely to vote for, and a whole lot more. I think they can verify my identity without a copy of my driver license.
      - aNoob7000 7y ago
        If you are doing something illegal, I doubt you would connect with all your friends and family. If you do, you deserve jail time.
        bradstewart 7y ago
        True. But I wouldn't be surprised to see additional verification required for new Facebook accounts (or those with little to no history/network) to use Libra. We shall see.
- kyrra 7y ago
  As someone who works for Google (opinions are my own) on the payments team, I disagree. :) Due to P2P, and disbursements we do for Play developers and AdSense, we are heavily invested in KYC. And we have to comply with the regulations of all countries we do business in, not just the US.
  - aNoob7000 7y ago
    Just curious, do you have to deal with OFAC controls?
    - coachtrotz 7y ago
      U.S. persons must comply with OFAC regulations, including all U.S. citizens and permanent resident aliens regardless of where they are located, all persons and entities within the United States, all U.S. incorporated entities and their foreign branches. Source: https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/faqs/Sanctions/Pages/faq_general.aspx#basic https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/faqs/Sanctions/Page...
- coachtrotz 7y ago
  Facebook Payments Inc is a state licensed Money Transmitter in all states, and is registered with FinCEN as a Money Services Business so they would certainly understand the requirements as they're subject to audits by State regulators. Source: https://www.nmlsconsumeraccess.org/EntityDetails.aspx/COMPANY/918740; https://www.nmlsconsumeraccess.org/EntityDetails.aspx/COMPAN... https://www.fincen.gov/msb-registrant-search https://www.fincen.gov/msb-registrant-search
ckastner 7y ago
> and if the police come with a warrant they get everything they ask for. Banks requiring warrants is exactly my point. The Libra text makes no mention of any safeguards with regards to law enforcement. On the contrary.
- aNoob7000 7y ago
  Actually, a bank is obligated to report suspicious activity, no warrant is needed. If you walk into a bank in the USA and deposit irregular amounts of money or a large sum of cash, they can and will report you to the Treasury and banking regulators.
  - ckastner 7y ago
    > Actually, a bank is obligated to report suspicious activity, no warrant is needed. Warrants are issued all the time. You're erroneously assuming that banks can detect all possible suspicious activity on their own.
    - CaptainZapp 7y ago
      You're erroneously assuming that banks can detect all possible suspicious activity on their own You're right, that's probably not possible to begin with. However, if a bank spots patterns, which don't smell quite right they are obliged by law to report it to regulators. Another reason why Deutsche is yet again in so much hot water[1]. Essentially they refused to report suspicious activities, which was flagged by a compliance officer. [1] https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/06/donald-trump-deutsche-bank-suspicious-transactions https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/06/donald-trump-deutsch...

by hjk05 7y ago

aNoob7000 7y ago

Bank Secrecy Act (BSA) and Know Your Customer (KYC). I'm going out on a limb to say that most tech companies have no idea what BSA or KYC means and the paperwork involved.

mintiquity 7y ago
Facebook already knows more about you than KYC requires. That said, according to Forbes (https://www.forbes.com/sites/francescoppola/2019/06/30/the-real-threat-from-facebooks-libra-coin https://www.forbes.com/sites/francescoppola/2019/06/30/the-r...), they'll comply with KYC/AML. I can't find a statement direct from Facebook on that, though.
- aNoob7000 7y ago
  Facebook only knows what I put into my Facebook registration form. Did they verify anything? No. Email me for government identification? No. Can Facebook comply with KYC/AML type regulations? Yes. But that I'm aware of, they currently don't do anything of the sort with all their users.
  - bradstewart 7y ago
    They know what you put in the registration form, every device and IP address you've ever used, who your friends are, who you parents are, who your coworkers are, what websites you visit, what stores you shop at, who you're likely to vote for, and a whole lot more. I think they can verify my identity without a copy of my driver license.
    - aNoob7000 7y ago
      If you are doing something illegal, I doubt you would connect with all your friends and family. If you do, you deserve jail time.
      - bradstewart 7y ago
        True. But I wouldn't be surprised to see additional verification required for new Facebook accounts (or those with little to no history/network) to use Libra. We shall see.
kyrra 7y ago
As someone who works for Google (opinions are my own) on the payments team, I disagree. :) Due to P2P, and disbursements we do for Play developers and AdSense, we are heavily invested in KYC. And we have to comply with the regulations of all countries we do business in, not just the US.
- aNoob7000 7y ago
  Just curious, do you have to deal with OFAC controls?
  - coachtrotz 7y ago
    U.S. persons must comply with OFAC regulations, including all U.S. citizens and permanent resident aliens regardless of where they are located, all persons and entities within the United States, all U.S. incorporated entities and their foreign branches. Source: https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/faqs/Sanctions/Pages/faq_general.aspx#basic https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/faqs/Sanctions/Page...
coachtrotz 7y ago
Facebook Payments Inc is a state licensed Money Transmitter in all states, and is registered with FinCEN as a Money Services Business so they would certainly understand the requirements as they're subject to audits by State regulators. Source: https://www.nmlsconsumeraccess.org/EntityDetails.aspx/COMPANY/918740; https://www.nmlsconsumeraccess.org/EntityDetails.aspx/COMPAN... https://www.fincen.gov/msb-registrant-search https://www.fincen.gov/msb-registrant-search

ckastner 7y ago

> and if the police come with a warrant they get everything they ask for. Banks requiring warrants is exactly my point. The Libra text makes no mention of any safeguards with regards to law enforcement. On the contrary.

aNoob7000 7y ago
Actually, a bank is obligated to report suspicious activity, no warrant is needed. If you walk into a bank in the USA and deposit irregular amounts of money or a large sum of cash, they can and will report you to the Treasury and banking regulators.
- ckastner 7y ago
  > Actually, a bank is obligated to report suspicious activity, no warrant is needed. Warrants are issued all the time. You're erroneously assuming that banks can detect all possible suspicious activity on their own.
  - CaptainZapp 7y ago
    You're erroneously assuming that banks can detect all possible suspicious activity on their own You're right, that's probably not possible to begin with. However, if a bank spots patterns, which don't smell quite right they are obliged by law to report it to regulators. Another reason why Deutsche is yet again in so much hot water[1]. Essentially they refused to report suspicious activities, which was flagged by a compliance officer. [1] https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/06/donald-trump-deutsche-bank-suspicious-transactions https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/06/donald-trump-deutsch...