5 ms·

Good luck with this in your typical HOA, where they forbid you to do any kind of natural landscaping, and insist on things like green grass in the middle of the

by magduf 7y ago

Good luck with this in your typical HOA, where they forbid you to do any kind of natural landscaping, and insist on things like green grass in the middle of the desert. (Of course, the answer here is to make sure you don't buy a house with an HOA.)

rmah 7y ago
Funny aside, a friend of mine lives in a neighborhood with a HOA. One of the people in it kept making so much trouble (annoying others to do this or that) that they voted to kick him out of the HOA. The guy actually threatened to sue the HOA to be let back in! LOL, "wait, you want to pay dues and be subject to HOA rules?" Sometimes reality is stranger than fiction.
- samirm 7y ago
  perhaps he didn't want to lose out on the benefits like shared pool access and whatnot.
- gowld 7y ago
  What's strange? From his perspective, it's the same as if all of the neighbors quit the HOA and stopped following the rules that he believed in. Would you like to be freed from your national taxes and laws if it meant you had no protection against your neighbors violating those laws?
- JoshTriplett 7y ago
  > they voted to kick him out of the HOA I would love to have this happen. Unfortunately, many HOAs have managed to get embedded in home titles, and they have the ability to put a lien on your house if they decide they're entitled to something.
  - jsgo 7y ago
    I can't speak for all HOAs but was on the board of mine (specifically to work on getting out of a neighborhood media agreement). The only time we did the lien process was after they had went above an arbitrary $1500 deficit in HOA dues and there was no special circumstances in place that they had done so (there was one couple whose daughter was in and out of the hospital for a year, so we had the property manager work with them after the medical bills settled down on a reduced rate until they could get caught back up). The HOA dues at the time were about $115 (the previously mentioned media agreement and neighborhood package was a major amount of it) so it wasn't because a month was missed (no one enjoyed invoking the lien process anyway as it incurs cost to the HOA as well). But as soon as the lien happens (after three letters saying the next step is lien), those who became delinquent started paying HOA dues (at least temporarily). Now that we got out of the agreement and were able to get the HOA dues down to $25 (common area maintenance and insurance), I got off the board. I will say I've heard of some outright predatory HOAs that seemingly have it out for some homeowners, but liens as far as I'm aware are (second to) last resorts when you can't engage a homeowner to come into compliance. I hated paying for the media package too (internet and TV was garbage with them the last couple of years), but at the end of the day, the builder instituted that before any of us came into the neighborhood and all of those agreements were known to us before moving in so as trash as it is, we had to pay it.
    - JoshTriplett 7y ago
      My point was that there's typically no way to get out of an HOA. Yes, I'm sure that better-behaved HOAs take many steps to "engage a homeowner to come into compliance" before escalating further, but that doesn't in any way change the original point. It's not uncommon for all the available homes within a broad area (e.g. all those within walking distance of an employer) to have an HOA, making "just don't get a house with an HOA" not a viable option. I'd love to have a "buyout" option.
      - toast0 7y ago
        The best way to get out of an HOA is through a property tax auction. The government usually gets property free and clear of all obligations, and sells it in that state. It's difficult and risky to push your property into a tax auction just to clear the HOA though. :)
      - jsgo 7y ago
        Oh man, the media agreement had us looking at every napalm earth option with things like "if we disbanded the HOA, then what?" (because the language says "Community Name and successors," it'd have been a net loss to disband as anything we did to attempt to get out was as a group vs as individuals including the liability protections that a LLC can provide vs various individuals). It's kind of crazy how ingrained it has become as a concept. In our town, supposedly (second hand info so grain of salt), one of the neighborhoods that sprung up without a HOA was pretty bad from the onset with poor maintenance on various houses (to the point of cardboard over broken glass windows) and the town somehow passed a requirement that all new developments belong to a HOA. Not sure the veracity of that (though I can confirm the spottiness of the neighborhood in question because they're adjacent from ours), but unfortunately it seems things are going more towards everything HOA route (outside of maybe buy a bunch of land on the outskirts of town and build a house. Which good luck with high speed internet and the like unless you're willing to pay to get them to install in your area). I see pros and cons to HOAs, though even while the one I'm in isn't bad, I still am not a fan of them generally.
- technothrasher 7y ago
  > "wait, you want to pay dues and be subject to HOA rules?" I live in a town with a bylaw which says if you have a shared driveway, you're required to have an HOA. So, my deed and my neighbors' deeds all have an HOA built into them. It doesn't do anything, it isn't funded, but it exists on paper. When we were discussing one year the snow plowing of the shared driveway, I suggested perhaps we could have the HOA buy a truck and a plow and we could share it. My neighbors just looked at me sideways and said, "You actually want to bring an HOA to life?" I said, "yeah, good point," and that was the end of that.
sillyquiet 7y ago
ymmv, but most HOAs I have ever been a part of restrict their authoritarian gaze to the front lawn only, I've always been free to do whatever to the (usually much larger) back yard. And, when I lived in California, the HOA was pretty amenable to the xeriscaping required by town ordinance, but that is probably pretty variable by location.
- gowld 7y ago
  My HOA has a weird rule where the lawn rules do apply to the front only, but also mandate a maximum 4ft fence height in back so you can't have privacy and so can't put anything your neighbors don't like in the back.
  - khrbrt 7y ago
    That's awful. My suggestion: next year plant rows of sunflowers or corn just behind the fence line. They'll grow as tall as an elephant's eye.
zadkey 7y ago
Yeah, you took the words out of my mouth.
cagenut 7y ago
or you could join your HOA board, maybe with a friend, and convince one or two others on it to change the rules.
- gowld 7y ago
  That would harm my neighbors' property values, in their estimation. It's very hard to change major rules because they require majority votes but a quorum is usually impossible because most people don't care enough to change the status quo.
  - CodeCube 7y ago
    Lol, my HOA can barely get enough people to attend the HOA meetings to even establish a quorum
- magduf 7y ago
  If you don't own a house there yet, you can't join the board. So you're proposing that I buy a house with HOA rules that I abhor, and then try to get the rules changed from within. This is not a smart strategy.
dahfizz 7y ago
I think the answer here is to not try and live in the middle of a desert. It requires an absurd amount of resources to keep you living comfortably when you could just choose a more reasonable climate.
- vinceguidry 7y ago
  It doesn't have to, lots of people have hacked at the problem of living sustainably and comfortably in desert climes. HOAs tend to be a bit friendlier out west for that sort of thing, and building codes are getting more accommodating.
Angostura 7y ago
> Of course, the answer here is to make sure you don't buy a house with an HOA Or possibly introduce local laws that specifically prohibit HOAs from introducing rules that are detrimental to the environment.
- magduf 7y ago
  The busybodies on HOAs are going to make sure that their local governments never get any such laws passed. It's the same reason they can't build any housing in SanFran.
  - Angostura 7y ago
    There's hope https://www.npr.org/2019/07/02/738131948/after-6-year-battle-florida-couple-wins-the-right-to-plant-veggies-in-front-yard https://www.npr.org/2019/07/02/738131948/after-6-year-battle...
stronglikedan 7y ago
My (perhaps atypical) HOA's official answer, when I asked what I could not plant in my yard was, "nothing artificial". Nothing was expressly prohibited in the bylaws, which I found odd and was what prompted my question. Of course, there were some state and local regulations, but those are ubiquitous.
jimhefferon 7y ago
It is often the case that escaping is not a realistic possibility, given the constraints that a person is under

by magduf 7y ago

rmah 7y ago

Funny aside, a friend of mine lives in a neighborhood with a HOA. One of the people in it kept making so much trouble (annoying others to do this or that) that they voted to kick him out of the HOA. The guy actually threatened to sue the HOA to be let back in! LOL, "wait, you want to pay dues and be subject to HOA rules?" Sometimes reality is stranger than fiction.

samirm 7y ago
perhaps he didn't want to lose out on the benefits like shared pool access and whatnot.
gowld 7y ago
What's strange? From his perspective, it's the same as if all of the neighbors quit the HOA and stopped following the rules that he believed in. Would you like to be freed from your national taxes and laws if it meant you had no protection against your neighbors violating those laws?
JoshTriplett 7y ago
> they voted to kick him out of the HOA I would love to have this happen. Unfortunately, many HOAs have managed to get embedded in home titles, and they have the ability to put a lien on your house if they decide they're entitled to something.
- jsgo 7y ago
  I can't speak for all HOAs but was on the board of mine (specifically to work on getting out of a neighborhood media agreement). The only time we did the lien process was after they had went above an arbitrary $1500 deficit in HOA dues and there was no special circumstances in place that they had done so (there was one couple whose daughter was in and out of the hospital for a year, so we had the property manager work with them after the medical bills settled down on a reduced rate until they could get caught back up). The HOA dues at the time were about $115 (the previously mentioned media agreement and neighborhood package was a major amount of it) so it wasn't because a month was missed (no one enjoyed invoking the lien process anyway as it incurs cost to the HOA as well). But as soon as the lien happens (after three letters saying the next step is lien), those who became delinquent started paying HOA dues (at least temporarily). Now that we got out of the agreement and were able to get the HOA dues down to $25 (common area maintenance and insurance), I got off the board. I will say I've heard of some outright predatory HOAs that seemingly have it out for some homeowners, but liens as far as I'm aware are (second to) last resorts when you can't engage a homeowner to come into compliance. I hated paying for the media package too (internet and TV was garbage with them the last couple of years), but at the end of the day, the builder instituted that before any of us came into the neighborhood and all of those agreements were known to us before moving in so as trash as it is, we had to pay it.
  - JoshTriplett 7y ago
    My point was that there's typically no way to get out of an HOA. Yes, I'm sure that better-behaved HOAs take many steps to "engage a homeowner to come into compliance" before escalating further, but that doesn't in any way change the original point. It's not uncommon for all the available homes within a broad area (e.g. all those within walking distance of an employer) to have an HOA, making "just don't get a house with an HOA" not a viable option. I'd love to have a "buyout" option.
    - toast0 7y ago
      The best way to get out of an HOA is through a property tax auction. The government usually gets property free and clear of all obligations, and sells it in that state. It's difficult and risky to push your property into a tax auction just to clear the HOA though. :)
    - jsgo 7y ago
      Oh man, the media agreement had us looking at every napalm earth option with things like "if we disbanded the HOA, then what?" (because the language says "Community Name and successors," it'd have been a net loss to disband as anything we did to attempt to get out was as a group vs as individuals including the liability protections that a LLC can provide vs various individuals). It's kind of crazy how ingrained it has become as a concept. In our town, supposedly (second hand info so grain of salt), one of the neighborhoods that sprung up without a HOA was pretty bad from the onset with poor maintenance on various houses (to the point of cardboard over broken glass windows) and the town somehow passed a requirement that all new developments belong to a HOA. Not sure the veracity of that (though I can confirm the spottiness of the neighborhood in question because they're adjacent from ours), but unfortunately it seems things are going more towards everything HOA route (outside of maybe buy a bunch of land on the outskirts of town and build a house. Which good luck with high speed internet and the like unless you're willing to pay to get them to install in your area). I see pros and cons to HOAs, though even while the one I'm in isn't bad, I still am not a fan of them generally.
technothrasher 7y ago
> "wait, you want to pay dues and be subject to HOA rules?" I live in a town with a bylaw which says if you have a shared driveway, you're required to have an HOA. So, my deed and my neighbors' deeds all have an HOA built into them. It doesn't do anything, it isn't funded, but it exists on paper. When we were discussing one year the snow plowing of the shared driveway, I suggested perhaps we could have the HOA buy a truck and a plow and we could share it. My neighbors just looked at me sideways and said, "You actually want to bring an HOA to life?" I said, "yeah, good point," and that was the end of that.

sillyquiet 7y ago

ymmv, but most HOAs I have ever been a part of restrict their authoritarian gaze to the front lawn only, I've always been free to do whatever to the (usually much larger) back yard. And, when I lived in California, the HOA was pretty amenable to the xeriscaping required by town ordinance, but that is probably pretty variable by location.

gowld 7y ago
My HOA has a weird rule where the lawn rules do apply to the front only, but also mandate a maximum 4ft fence height in back so you can't have privacy and so can't put anything your neighbors don't like in the back.
- khrbrt 7y ago
  That's awful. My suggestion: next year plant rows of sunflowers or corn just behind the fence line. They'll grow as tall as an elephant's eye.

zadkey 7y ago

Yeah, you took the words out of my mouth.

cagenut 7y ago

or you could join your HOA board, maybe with a friend, and convince one or two others on it to change the rules.

gowld 7y ago
That would harm my neighbors' property values, in their estimation. It's very hard to change major rules because they require majority votes but a quorum is usually impossible because most people don't care enough to change the status quo.
- CodeCube 7y ago
  Lol, my HOA can barely get enough people to attend the HOA meetings to even establish a quorum
magduf 7y ago
If you don't own a house there yet, you can't join the board. So you're proposing that I buy a house with HOA rules that I abhor, and then try to get the rules changed from within. This is not a smart strategy.

dahfizz 7y ago

I think the answer here is to not try and live in the middle of a desert. It requires an absurd amount of resources to keep you living comfortably when you could just choose a more reasonable climate.

vinceguidry 7y ago
It doesn't have to, lots of people have hacked at the problem of living sustainably and comfortably in desert climes. HOAs tend to be a bit friendlier out west for that sort of thing, and building codes are getting more accommodating.

Angostura 7y ago

> Of course, the answer here is to make sure you don't buy a house with an HOA Or possibly introduce local laws that specifically prohibit HOAs from introducing rules that are detrimental to the environment.

magduf 7y ago
The busybodies on HOAs are going to make sure that their local governments never get any such laws passed. It's the same reason they can't build any housing in SanFran.
- Angostura 7y ago
  There's hope https://www.npr.org/2019/07/02/738131948/after-6-year-battle-florida-couple-wins-the-right-to-plant-veggies-in-front-yard https://www.npr.org/2019/07/02/738131948/after-6-year-battle...

stronglikedan 7y ago

My (perhaps atypical) HOA's official answer, when I asked what I could not plant in my yard was, "nothing artificial". Nothing was expressly prohibited in the bylaws, which I found odd and was what prompted my question. Of course, there were some state and local regulations, but those are ubiquitous.

jimhefferon 7y ago

It is often the case that escaping is not a realistic possibility, given the constraints that a person is under