7 ms·

thanks for the real life anecdote. just like in startups, its helpful to hear from the actual users instead of what some armchair critics feel is happening. ho

thanks for the real life anecdote. just like in startups, its helpful to hear from the actual users instead of what some armchair critics feel is happening. however, i do worry about fights and bullying being taken to 'the dark corners of the school' such as the bathroom or some unused stairwell

magduf 7y ago
>however, i do worry about fights and bullying being taken to 'the dark corners of the school' such as the bathroom or some unused stairwell 1) They did that a lot back in the "old days" anyway, since it was away from other people 2) bullies usually have poor impulse control and don't think immediately about the consequences of their actions, so they frequently won't think about the cameras, so at least some of the time they'll do their bullying in view of the cameras.
- leetcrew 7y ago
  regarding 2) that may be true of many bullies, but I would expect at least some of them to learn how to get away with it. I could certainly imagine that some bullies would start exclusively tormenting their victims in camera deadzones and the victim finally stands up for themselves in view of the camera. all the evidence would show that that kid started a fight unprovoked.
  - ticmasta 7y ago
    I think prisons show this is true. They're arguably some of the most surveilled areas in society yet have many occurrences of violent and serious crime.
- panzagl 7y ago
  I don't know how much it even really decreases outbursts in the classroom- this is at the elementary level so all the kids are pretty impulsive. But the reality is that it gives teachers a tool to make admin and parents address the behaviors without just dismissing it.
- ceejayoz 7y ago
  #2 sounds like natural selection that'll result in more effective bullies.
  - AstralStorm 7y ago
    Outside of school "bullying" is a kind of crime. Either assault, battery or mugging. For some reason juveniles get the epithet instead of the real thing, as if it is less grave or something...
    - ceejayoz 7y ago
      Not all bullying is physical, and the "school to prison pipeline" approach has its own major issues.
- greedo 7y ago
  Bullies are extremely effective at detecting and determining safe times and places to bully others. My tormentors waited til right after school, til I left school property. Then it was Mad Max time to make it home...
- asark 7y ago
  3) the hallways are already monitored by cameras in many schools, and the kids, though informed, often completely forget about it until reminded for some reason.
DocTomoe 7y ago
> however, i do worry about fights and bullying being taken to 'the dark corners of the school' such as the bathroom or some unused stairwell That is easily solveable: Video surveillance in unused stairwells and bathrooms (ideally individual stalls). What, suddenly people have problems with that? A panopticum only works when the threat of surveillance is ever-present.
bilbo0s 7y ago
>however, i do worry about fights and bullying being taken to 'the dark corners of the school' such as the bathroom or some unused stairwell... Maybe you're relatively young, but I'd wager the old heads among us remember the days when these things were settled out at the bike racks. So that worry was already happening, and had been happening for a very long time.
vangelis 7y ago
The lesson learned from zero tolerance tolerance policies is that there's no reason to hold back if you're both going to get in trouble.
droithomme 7y ago
Yes. Not all bullies are idiots. Some are quite clever. They will torment and provoke their victims just off camera, then move into view of the camera as the victim starts to hit back. Most people who have had more than one kid, or who have supervised children in any capacity, know that some of them will make a game of setting up the other to get blame for something the first one started.

magduf 7y ago

>however, i do worry about fights and bullying being taken to 'the dark corners of the school' such as the bathroom or some unused stairwell 1) They did that a lot back in the "old days" anyway, since it was away from other people 2) bullies usually have poor impulse control and don't think immediately about the consequences of their actions, so they frequently won't think about the cameras, so at least some of the time they'll do their bullying in view of the cameras.

leetcrew 7y ago
regarding 2) that may be true of many bullies, but I would expect at least some of them to learn how to get away with it. I could certainly imagine that some bullies would start exclusively tormenting their victims in camera deadzones and the victim finally stands up for themselves in view of the camera. all the evidence would show that that kid started a fight unprovoked.
- ticmasta 7y ago
  I think prisons show this is true. They're arguably some of the most surveilled areas in society yet have many occurrences of violent and serious crime.
panzagl 7y ago
I don't know how much it even really decreases outbursts in the classroom- this is at the elementary level so all the kids are pretty impulsive. But the reality is that it gives teachers a tool to make admin and parents address the behaviors without just dismissing it.
ceejayoz 7y ago
#2 sounds like natural selection that'll result in more effective bullies.
- AstralStorm 7y ago
  Outside of school "bullying" is a kind of crime. Either assault, battery or mugging. For some reason juveniles get the epithet instead of the real thing, as if it is less grave or something...
  - ceejayoz 7y ago
    Not all bullying is physical, and the "school to prison pipeline" approach has its own major issues.
greedo 7y ago
Bullies are extremely effective at detecting and determining safe times and places to bully others. My tormentors waited til right after school, til I left school property. Then it was Mad Max time to make it home...
asark 7y ago
3) the hallways are already monitored by cameras in many schools, and the kids, though informed, often completely forget about it until reminded for some reason.

DocTomoe 7y ago

> however, i do worry about fights and bullying being taken to 'the dark corners of the school' such as the bathroom or some unused stairwell That is easily solveable: Video surveillance in unused stairwells and bathrooms (ideally individual stalls). What, suddenly people have problems with that? A panopticum only works when the threat of surveillance is ever-present.

bilbo0s 7y ago

>however, i do worry about fights and bullying being taken to 'the dark corners of the school' such as the bathroom or some unused stairwell... Maybe you're relatively young, but I'd wager the old heads among us remember the days when these things were settled out at the bike racks. So that worry was already happening, and had been happening for a very long time.

vangelis 7y ago

The lesson learned from zero tolerance tolerance policies is that there's no reason to hold back if you're both going to get in trouble.

droithomme 7y ago

Yes. Not all bullies are idiots. Some are quite clever. They will torment and provoke their victims just off camera, then move into view of the camera as the victim starts to hit back. Most people who have had more than one kid, or who have supervised children in any capacity, know that some of them will make a game of setting up the other to get blame for something the first one started.