4 ms·

I know what you mean, but this is basically just correcting for a deficiency in current technology—i.e. the ability to place the front-facing camera directly be

I know what you mean, but this is basically just correcting for a deficiency in current technology—i.e. the ability to place the front-facing camera directly behind the image of the remote person's eyeballs. The solution is a little creepy I'll admit. But the fact that we are becoming increasingly accustomed to talking to people who appear to be staring at our necks is even creepier, in my opinion.

mcv 7y ago
Phone manufacturers are trying to figure out how to make their phones as much screen as possible, while still having a front facing camera, so they have either a notch, a slide-out camera, or a hole for the camera in the screen. I propose they put that hole not in a corner, but in the middle of the screen, and position the remote person's face so that the pupil of one of their eyes is positioned exactly over the camera. That should give you the most natural interaction without distorting anything.
- dalore 7y ago
  Everyone would complain about the "dead pixel" in the middle of their screen.
  - hermitdev 7y ago
    When I last had to replace my phone, because it fell out of my pocket exiting my car, I received a new phone, not with a dead pixel, but an entire column of dead pixels. No visible damage, straight up just powered it on after openning the box. Immediately called my phone company to request a replacement and they wanted me to buy a new phone. Said fuck that, I paid full retail for the new phone amd its defective out of the box. Send me a new phone and a prepaid shipping bill for the return.
- mkl 7y ago
  I don't think that's a good idea. What about the majority of the phone's use when it's not showing someone's face? What about when the person moves their head and the whole frame has to pan?
  - mcv 7y ago
    Not to mention having a hole in your screen when you just want to watch a video. It's a ridiculous idea, but funny to think about. More seriously, I'm wondering if at some point the front-facing camera may be an intrinsic part of the screen. I've read that on-screen fingerprint sensors already use a kind of camera in the screen. If that were to become good enough to see images at a distance, that might actually work.
    - knolan 7y ago
      Here’s the current state of cameras in screens. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019/06/get-ready-for-under-display-smartphone-cameras/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019/06/get-ready-for-under-...
      - jws 7y ago
        Both Xiaomi and Oppo shared videos of the in-display cameras working, but the videos are too low quality to make any kind of image quality determinations. That coupled with a lack of even controlled lighting, best case sample images probably tells a lot about the image quality.
- taneq 7y ago
  They're already putting fingerprint scanners actually under the screen somehow (TIR?) - I doubt it'll be long before they figure out how to get a camera to look through a running screen while being invisible from the viewing side. Ultimate Big Brother tech right there.
  - michaelbrooks 7y ago
    Cameras are already being placed under the screen e.g. Xiaomi have implemented it and it probably won't be long before it's public. I personally think it's too far, we should stick to bezels so we can have great hardware for cameras, speakers and screens. https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2019/6/5/18654365/xiaomi-camera-under-screen-no-notch-transparent-display-technology https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2019/6/5/18654365/xi...
    - PascLeRasc 7y ago
      I agree, I think phone industrial design peaked with the iPhone 5S/SE, Nexus 5, and Pixel 1. I'd like that design forever please.
      - mcv 7y ago
        I would love to see a successor to my old, rubberized steel Motorola Milestone with keyboard, but with a larger screen and unlocked bootloader, please. All these modern phones are way too flimsy.
    - taneq 7y ago
      I agree that dedicated hardware is better, but then again I used to think standalone cameras were always going to be better than a phone camera and (while price-for-price it's still true) phone cameras are "good enough" and the best camera is the one you have with you.
brootstrap 7y ago
hmm. i cant agree with this as a person who does phone calls and then sees people in real life. i guess there is a market for facetimers like yourself that i must respect. if you care that much about appearing properly on a video call with grandma, sure let apple redraw your eyeballs haha. The only people accustomed to talking to people who are looking at each other's necks are the people who live on the cell phone. Like the girl who was doing a video facetime call on her cell phone all the way from waiting at the gate , boarding, sitting on plane. Call me an old grumper if you want, downvote if you want. but damn , da fugg is the deal get off my lawn with your video chats kids.
- Ajedi32 7y ago
  I don't see your point. Is your argument "I don't use this feature, therefore it shouldn't exist"?
  - aksss 7y ago
    I think you missed his point (whether it's strong or not). He's saying there's an irony in the idea of focusing on proper appearance to the person on the phone when the boundaries of what's appropriate for loud speakerphone calls in a public environment have been lowered too far. Like worrying about whether you look nice while walking off a cliff. I think that's the point, whether one agrees with him or not.
- retpirato 7y ago
  There's a difference between having the opinion that "I don't use it, so it shouldn't exist" & I don't have a problem as long as the people who use it aren't obsessed with it. Honestly I'm not sure which opinion brootstrap holds, but he's entitled to it either way. For those who can't stand selfies/facetiming there's a perfect song from Brad Paisley called "selfie":https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rGlcScJ0lE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rGlcScJ0lE
tzs 7y ago
> But the fact that we are becoming increasingly accustomed to talking to people who appear to be staring at our necks is even creepier, in my opinion There have been a few comments now that mention people looking at necks instead of eyes as being creepy. Now I wonder if anyone finds it creepy to talk to me in person, because I usually look at the speaker's mouth, not their eyes, at least when they are speaking. (I'm not actually sure where I look when I'm doing the speaking). Looking at the mouth allows better error correction if the conversation is competing with noise.
- godelski 7y ago
  What's weird is when someone only looks at one spot. If you stare at people's eyes some will become uncomfortable, because naturally we make slight side movements. I'm sure the same it's with mouth. But most people can't tell if you're looking at their mouth or at them. People do notice direct eye contact though. Maybe someone could explain this. I'm kinda curious why directly in the eye we notice but there's more wiggle room around the face.

mcv 7y ago

Phone manufacturers are trying to figure out how to make their phones as much screen as possible, while still having a front facing camera, so they have either a notch, a slide-out camera, or a hole for the camera in the screen. I propose they put that hole not in a corner, but in the middle of the screen, and position the remote person's face so that the pupil of one of their eyes is positioned exactly over the camera. That should give you the most natural interaction without distorting anything.

dalore 7y ago
Everyone would complain about the "dead pixel" in the middle of their screen.
- hermitdev 7y ago
  When I last had to replace my phone, because it fell out of my pocket exiting my car, I received a new phone, not with a dead pixel, but an entire column of dead pixels. No visible damage, straight up just powered it on after openning the box. Immediately called my phone company to request a replacement and they wanted me to buy a new phone. Said fuck that, I paid full retail for the new phone amd its defective out of the box. Send me a new phone and a prepaid shipping bill for the return.
mkl 7y ago
I don't think that's a good idea. What about the majority of the phone's use when it's not showing someone's face? What about when the person moves their head and the whole frame has to pan?
- mcv 7y ago
  Not to mention having a hole in your screen when you just want to watch a video. It's a ridiculous idea, but funny to think about. More seriously, I'm wondering if at some point the front-facing camera may be an intrinsic part of the screen. I've read that on-screen fingerprint sensors already use a kind of camera in the screen. If that were to become good enough to see images at a distance, that might actually work.
  - knolan 7y ago
    Here’s the current state of cameras in screens. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019/06/get-ready-for-under-display-smartphone-cameras/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019/06/get-ready-for-under-...
    - jws 7y ago
      Both Xiaomi and Oppo shared videos of the in-display cameras working, but the videos are too low quality to make any kind of image quality determinations. That coupled with a lack of even controlled lighting, best case sample images probably tells a lot about the image quality.
taneq 7y ago
They're already putting fingerprint scanners actually under the screen somehow (TIR?) - I doubt it'll be long before they figure out how to get a camera to look through a running screen while being invisible from the viewing side. Ultimate Big Brother tech right there.
- michaelbrooks 7y ago
  Cameras are already being placed under the screen e.g. Xiaomi have implemented it and it probably won't be long before it's public. I personally think it's too far, we should stick to bezels so we can have great hardware for cameras, speakers and screens. https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2019/6/5/18654365/xiaomi-camera-under-screen-no-notch-transparent-display-technology https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2019/6/5/18654365/xi...
  - PascLeRasc 7y ago
    I agree, I think phone industrial design peaked with the iPhone 5S/SE, Nexus 5, and Pixel 1. I'd like that design forever please.
    - mcv 7y ago
      I would love to see a successor to my old, rubberized steel Motorola Milestone with keyboard, but with a larger screen and unlocked bootloader, please. All these modern phones are way too flimsy.
  - taneq 7y ago
    I agree that dedicated hardware is better, but then again I used to think standalone cameras were always going to be better than a phone camera and (while price-for-price it's still true) phone cameras are "good enough" and the best camera is the one you have with you.

brootstrap 7y ago

hmm. i cant agree with this as a person who does phone calls and then sees people in real life. i guess there is a market for facetimers like yourself that i must respect. if you care that much about appearing properly on a video call with grandma, sure let apple redraw your eyeballs haha. The only people accustomed to talking to people who are looking at each other's necks are the people who live on the cell phone. Like the girl who was doing a video facetime call on her cell phone all the way from waiting at the gate , boarding, sitting on plane. Call me an old grumper if you want, downvote if you want. but damn , da fugg is the deal get off my lawn with your video chats kids.

Ajedi32 7y ago
I don't see your point. Is your argument "I don't use this feature, therefore it shouldn't exist"?
- aksss 7y ago
  I think you missed his point (whether it's strong or not). He's saying there's an irony in the idea of focusing on proper appearance to the person on the phone when the boundaries of what's appropriate for loud speakerphone calls in a public environment have been lowered too far. Like worrying about whether you look nice while walking off a cliff. I think that's the point, whether one agrees with him or not.
retpirato 7y ago
There's a difference between having the opinion that "I don't use it, so it shouldn't exist" & I don't have a problem as long as the people who use it aren't obsessed with it. Honestly I'm not sure which opinion brootstrap holds, but he's entitled to it either way. For those who can't stand selfies/facetiming there's a perfect song from Brad Paisley called "selfie":https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rGlcScJ0lE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rGlcScJ0lE

tzs 7y ago

> But the fact that we are becoming increasingly accustomed to talking to people who appear to be staring at our necks is even creepier, in my opinion There have been a few comments now that mention people looking at necks instead of eyes as being creepy. Now I wonder if anyone finds it creepy to talk to me in person, because I usually look at the speaker's mouth, not their eyes, at least when they are speaking. (I'm not actually sure where I look when I'm doing the speaking). Looking at the mouth allows better error correction if the conversation is competing with noise.

godelski 7y ago
What's weird is when someone only looks at one spot. If you stare at people's eyes some will become uncomfortable, because naturally we make slight side movements. I'm sure the same it's with mouth. But most people can't tell if you're looking at their mouth or at them. People do notice direct eye contact though. Maybe someone could explain this. I'm kinda curious why directly in the eye we notice but there's more wiggle room around the face.