6 ms·

Yes I asked if I could get a pat down instead of the backscatter x-ray at Heathrow. Was made to feel like a criminal, questioned etc and put under pressure. And

by dalore 7y ago

Yes I asked if I could get a pat down instead of the backscatter x-ray at Heathrow. Was made to feel like a criminal, questioned etc and put under pressure. And then to be told I don't have to get scanned but I can't get on my flight unless I do. There wasn't even an opt out.

userbinator 7y ago
I guess they were also very surprised, because most people would rather not be touched by a stranger.
- bin0 7y ago
  I am stuck doing this for medical reasons, and it is certainly one of the most degrading experiences I have ever had the displeasure of enduring. It's very possible he's stuck doing it for similar reasons. Most machines in America aren't backscatter, but I still can't use them. It's also a crapshoot - you may have an aggressive officer, or a friendly one. I've been patted down twice for absolutely no reason; not a second screening, the guy just went over me two times. I keep wondering why we have chosen to sacrifice freedom for some small measure of security. More importantly, I don't really believe airport security stops much - it's security theater.
  - sokoloff 7y ago
    It's a jobs program.
    - bin0 7y ago
      It's a jobs program which humiliates innocent Americans and treats those who have committed no crime as common criminals without any warrant or probable cause. It's a violation of individual sovereignty without reason. Jobs are good, but the ends do not justify the means.
      - sokoloff 7y ago
        Wasteful jobs programs are not good.
- codyb 7y ago
  Huh, I do it every time. Never behind a privacy screen. Never bothered me at all. The only shitty part is when agents let your stuff go through the scanners but you’re stuck behind the machines. I’m always trying to crane my neck to make sure no one walks off with a laptop. Usually the TSA agents are very nice. I ask them about their days, how things are, and then I’m on my way. I like to exercise my rights just to make sure they keep being available, and there’s not much better to do inside the airport anyways.
  - beatgammit 7y ago
    Fortunately and unfortunately, I nearly always travel with one or more young kids, which means I can't realistically do stuff like this that'll delay things (they have small bladders, little patience, and are curious). However, they usually have me go through the metal detector instead of the backscatter machine, so I tend to avoid that part of it. Before our last trip, I read about the facial ID thing, and I was worried because my passport was expired (we were traveling domestic). Fortunately, it seems neither of the airports we went through were implementing it yet, so I'll have time to renew before it's a thing. I just wish we can all come to our senses and realize that the TSA doesn't really make us safer and that it just makes everyone mad. Unfortunately, people just seem to put up with it.
    - saltminer 7y ago
      > I just wish we can all come to our senses and realize that the TSA doesn't really make us safer and that it just makes everyone mad. Unfortunately, people just seem to put up with it. Because people don't feel like they can make any real impact, and for those who can (our representatives), it's political suicide. The TSA is a giant waste of money but turning the front line of security back to airports would extremely easy to attack as weak on crime, inviting in terrorists, etc. (But who knows, maybe the sight of the TSA line makes terrorists give up in frustration because they're too busy to wait an hour or more just to hijack a plane.)
      - mikepurvis 7y ago
        Are there regular studies examining broader public opinion on this? I have to assume that at some point it is going to shift, and suddenly scaling back (or privatizing) airport screening will be a no-brainer.
dharmab 7y ago
My coworker simply taps his heart and says he has a "device". (It's actually a stent, but he never gets asked any further questions and never has to go through a machine.)
jshowa3 7y ago
X-ray data isn't as identifying as facial recognition. And quite honestly, you're so concerned about this, you've already lost the war since everywhere you walk, you're bound to be caught by a camera. You need real legislation to fix this problem.
misterprime 7y ago
That goes completely counter to my experiences. From 2009 to 2017 I chose to "opt out" every time. Here's what happened for me each time: 1. They make you wait while they get someone to do the work. 2. They offer to take you somewhere private (I declined). 3. They tell you the routine ("I'm gonna go up your leg until I feel resistance"). 4. They wipe their gloves and put them in a chemical detector. 5. They let you go. Only once did I have to get an extra exam where they detected some chemical on me and had to do that whole wipe down + chemical test process on my carry-on. It wasn't a big deal. In 2017 I finally got TSA Precheck. So I've very rarely had to go through this since then (flying w/ non-Precheck friend, flying at non-Precheck airport). EDIT: My experience is from US only. I missed that the parent's description was from the UK.
- vinceguidry 7y ago
  His experience was in the UK.
  - sokoloff 7y ago
    I was able to opt out in Dublin at the secondary security point (where one clears immigration in Dublin for US-bound flights, so I think that particular scanner was operated at the direction of the US authorities). I have not tried to opt out of a pure-EU/UK scanner, so your point is still valid. I suspect Toronto may work the same way.
- enonevets 7y ago
  If you're flying with a non-precheck friend and they're willing to let you book their flights and they pay you back, they'll benefit from you having precheck and their ticket will include precheck as well.
ant6n 7y ago
I was told at Heathrow flat out that there is no way to opt out, although they did the pat-down (etc.) in the end anyway
dijit 7y ago
Similar story, and I’m going to go ahead and assume that the reason you wouldn’t be able to board was due to the flight departing very soon. I _always_ opt out of backscatter machines. I’m British so I’ve flown Heathrow and Gatwick and Luton (etc), normally the process is painless. I wait a fair while longer than others, sitting/standing publicly as people pass me by and it feels awkward, but not enough to stop me. I have never been denied boarding for my choice. But I make sure I have time to be harassed. Just in case. The pat down is very humane, they tell you what they will do and they use the back of their hands a fair bit. Then they brush the glove and put the cloth they brushed with in a scanner, then you’re free to go. However, I’ve been to a couple of airports that have... aggressive.. security. Heathrow was one, they made me feel so small, as if I was causing trouble, implying I was hiding something. Eventually I told them that I worked on the backscatter x-rays, and claimed that while they were safe for normal use, they were not safe for use with the added radiation of flying and that the world would be defaming it in a decade as, I said it was this generations asbestos. They stopped pestering me then, since that incident it’s been my go-to response. It’s not true as far as I know, but, it /is/ an added dose of radiation right before you get some more radiation, so it’s not exactly a complete fabrication. Now they’re using millimetre wave scanners which are less radioactive, but have other considerations like the activation of moles on skin, or their relative ineffectiveness of finding handguns in underwear (as per TSA reporting) or 54% false positive rate (as per Germany’s report)
- kjar 7y ago
  I ‘opt out’ always. Had a terminal security person tell me it’s just air (what in the actual funk!?). Fruitless attempts to explain that claim was entirely incorrect I just gave up. Got the pat down and move alongit’s a pain but flying is terrible in general. Finally I enjoy making the inconveniences along the way.

by dalore 7y ago

userbinator 7y ago

I guess they were also very surprised, because most people would rather not be touched by a stranger.

bin0 7y ago
I am stuck doing this for medical reasons, and it is certainly one of the most degrading experiences I have ever had the displeasure of enduring. It's very possible he's stuck doing it for similar reasons. Most machines in America aren't backscatter, but I still can't use them. It's also a crapshoot - you may have an aggressive officer, or a friendly one. I've been patted down twice for absolutely no reason; not a second screening, the guy just went over me two times. I keep wondering why we have chosen to sacrifice freedom for some small measure of security. More importantly, I don't really believe airport security stops much - it's security theater.
- sokoloff 7y ago
  It's a jobs program.
  - bin0 7y ago
    It's a jobs program which humiliates innocent Americans and treats those who have committed no crime as common criminals without any warrant or probable cause. It's a violation of individual sovereignty without reason. Jobs are good, but the ends do not justify the means.
    - sokoloff 7y ago
      Wasteful jobs programs are not good.
codyb 7y ago
Huh, I do it every time. Never behind a privacy screen. Never bothered me at all. The only shitty part is when agents let your stuff go through the scanners but you’re stuck behind the machines. I’m always trying to crane my neck to make sure no one walks off with a laptop. Usually the TSA agents are very nice. I ask them about their days, how things are, and then I’m on my way. I like to exercise my rights just to make sure they keep being available, and there’s not much better to do inside the airport anyways.
- beatgammit 7y ago
  Fortunately and unfortunately, I nearly always travel with one or more young kids, which means I can't realistically do stuff like this that'll delay things (they have small bladders, little patience, and are curious). However, they usually have me go through the metal detector instead of the backscatter machine, so I tend to avoid that part of it. Before our last trip, I read about the facial ID thing, and I was worried because my passport was expired (we were traveling domestic). Fortunately, it seems neither of the airports we went through were implementing it yet, so I'll have time to renew before it's a thing. I just wish we can all come to our senses and realize that the TSA doesn't really make us safer and that it just makes everyone mad. Unfortunately, people just seem to put up with it.
  - saltminer 7y ago
    > I just wish we can all come to our senses and realize that the TSA doesn't really make us safer and that it just makes everyone mad. Unfortunately, people just seem to put up with it. Because people don't feel like they can make any real impact, and for those who can (our representatives), it's political suicide. The TSA is a giant waste of money but turning the front line of security back to airports would extremely easy to attack as weak on crime, inviting in terrorists, etc. (But who knows, maybe the sight of the TSA line makes terrorists give up in frustration because they're too busy to wait an hour or more just to hijack a plane.)
    - mikepurvis 7y ago
      Are there regular studies examining broader public opinion on this? I have to assume that at some point it is going to shift, and suddenly scaling back (or privatizing) airport screening will be a no-brainer.

dharmab 7y ago

My coworker simply taps his heart and says he has a "device". (It's actually a stent, but he never gets asked any further questions and never has to go through a machine.)

jshowa3 7y ago

X-ray data isn't as identifying as facial recognition. And quite honestly, you're so concerned about this, you've already lost the war since everywhere you walk, you're bound to be caught by a camera. You need real legislation to fix this problem.

misterprime 7y ago

That goes completely counter to my experiences. From 2009 to 2017 I chose to "opt out" every time. Here's what happened for me each time: 1. They make you wait while they get someone to do the work. 2. They offer to take you somewhere private (I declined). 3. They tell you the routine ("I'm gonna go up your leg until I feel resistance"). 4. They wipe their gloves and put them in a chemical detector. 5. They let you go. Only once did I have to get an extra exam where they detected some chemical on me and had to do that whole wipe down + chemical test process on my carry-on. It wasn't a big deal. In 2017 I finally got TSA Precheck. So I've very rarely had to go through this since then (flying w/ non-Precheck friend, flying at non-Precheck airport). EDIT: My experience is from US only. I missed that the parent's description was from the UK.

vinceguidry 7y ago
His experience was in the UK.
- sokoloff 7y ago
  I was able to opt out in Dublin at the secondary security point (where one clears immigration in Dublin for US-bound flights, so I think that particular scanner was operated at the direction of the US authorities). I have not tried to opt out of a pure-EU/UK scanner, so your point is still valid. I suspect Toronto may work the same way.
enonevets 7y ago
If you're flying with a non-precheck friend and they're willing to let you book their flights and they pay you back, they'll benefit from you having precheck and their ticket will include precheck as well.

ant6n 7y ago

I was told at Heathrow flat out that there is no way to opt out, although they did the pat-down (etc.) in the end anyway

dijit 7y ago

Similar story, and I’m going to go ahead and assume that the reason you wouldn’t be able to board was due to the flight departing very soon. I _always_ opt out of backscatter machines. I’m British so I’ve flown Heathrow and Gatwick and Luton (etc), normally the process is painless. I wait a fair while longer than others, sitting/standing publicly as people pass me by and it feels awkward, but not enough to stop me. I have never been denied boarding for my choice. But I make sure I have time to be harassed. Just in case. The pat down is very humane, they tell you what they will do and they use the back of their hands a fair bit. Then they brush the glove and put the cloth they brushed with in a scanner, then you’re free to go. However, I’ve been to a couple of airports that have... aggressive.. security. Heathrow was one, they made me feel so small, as if I was causing trouble, implying I was hiding something. Eventually I told them that I worked on the backscatter x-rays, and claimed that while they were safe for normal use, they were not safe for use with the added radiation of flying and that the world would be defaming it in a decade as, I said it was this generations asbestos. They stopped pestering me then, since that incident it’s been my go-to response. It’s not true as far as I know, but, it /is/ an added dose of radiation right before you get some more radiation, so it’s not exactly a complete fabrication. Now they’re using millimetre wave scanners which are less radioactive, but have other considerations like the activation of moles on skin, or their relative ineffectiveness of finding handguns in underwear (as per TSA reporting) or 54% false positive rate (as per Germany’s report)

kjar 7y ago
I ‘opt out’ always. Had a terminal security person tell me it’s just air (what in the actual funk!?). Fruitless attempts to explain that claim was entirely incorrect I just gave up. Got the pat down and move alongit’s a pain but flying is terrible in general. Finally I enjoy making the inconveniences along the way.