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I am sure the chinese government can twist Apple's arm to sign their malware. So it is not any better.

ubersync 7y ago
Lol, fanboys downvoting my comment, even though it is totally possible. Even my last comment 28 days ago, which was incidentally against Apple but factually true, was also downvoted. Looks like hacker news is being plagued with fanboys who can't take any valid criticism of their dear Apple Inc. Edit: when I wrote this comment, my original comment was at -4 points.
- GoofballJones 7y ago
  It’s not the same. These are border guards easily putting spyware on Android phones, since it’s a feature of Android (to load programs). With iOS, you’d have to jailbreak it first, which isn’t a trivial thing to do “while you wait” at the border. That’s all.
  - ubersync 7y ago
    You don't need to jailbreak if you have an Apple signed App, which the Chinese Govt. can theoretically force Apple to provide.
    - arcticbull 7y ago
      Will you not see it on the launch screen? I mean, if you wanted a hidden, non-standard launchd type app, you'd have to modify the filesystem, install it, they'd need to create special tooling to do so, and modify the updaters to preserve it across an iOS update, etc. All without anyone at Apple speaking out. Apple refused to create an unlock tool for the US government that was a one-off, to create spyware for China seems like they last thing they'd do. Could they? I guess. Once detected - and it definitely would be (as this was), or leaked by employees - Apple would get bowled over by buyers and the stock market. It's just not in their interests. Their current business model is selling privacy.
    - GoofballJones 7y ago
      Then we need a story like this article confirming that do this too. So far the evidence points to “no”, but that isn’t enough. The transparency report from Apple needs to report this as well.
  - 9HZZRfNlpR 7y ago
    Apple is just gonna remotely ship it to you. You can't do business in China without bending over to government. If they want malware there then there will be one.
- dang 7y ago
  Would you please read the site guidelines? They ask you not to post like this. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html These biases are in the eye of the beholder. People with opposite feelings about Apple (or whatever the corp of the moment is) see exactly the opposite bias.
fiblye 7y ago
I think if news of that got out, the US government would not be happy with one of their companies being complicit in signing Chinese malware. China gets away with a lot of stuff because companies can write it off to spies or other infiltration. Outright approval of it wouldn't go so well, especially after the Huawai affair.
simonh 7y ago
It's not any better (stated as fact) because you hold an unsubstantiated opinion which so far is contradicted by actual reality. Today Android phones have this malware on them and iOS phones do not, so the actual facts in the real world are that iOS is free of this intrusion. That might change, but the situation now is what it is. This is why you are getting downvoted.
- efdee 7y ago
  No offense, but the idea that "iOS is free of this intrusion" is your unsubstantiated opinion just as much. You don't know that for sure, do you?
  - simonh 7y ago
    So far only Android phones are reported as having the software installed on them by border guards. There are no reports of this being done to iPhones. Those are the facts.
    - yorwba 7y ago
      The company building the software also provides equivalents for other operating systems: https://mobile.twitter.com/0xdude/status/1146113174212661249?s=12 https://mobile.twitter.com/0xdude/status/1146113174212661249... We just don't have a sample to reverse-engineer yet.
    - skybrian 7y ago
      Well, they're facts about news reports. Always good to remember that what we know about what's going on in some other part of the world is what people tell us.
      - simonh 7y ago
        I understand that and I think the people downvoting do too. It doesn’t justify knowingly and explicitly stating something as a fact based only on speculation.
onetimemanytime 7y ago
OK, I'll bite: How sure are you?
csomar 7y ago
The US government failed to twist their arms. Very unlikely that China has a lot of power over them. Given how many people they employ in China, they might have actually power over China.
- vanilla_nut 7y ago
  Conversely, they depend heavily on Chinese manufacturing -- for something like 70% of their production and also rely on Chinese markets for a significant portion of their profits. When Xi comes to Tim Cook with the options: "lose 70% of your manufacturing and 50% of your sales or let us install this app" it's not really an easy choice.
  - FrozenTuna 7y ago
    Oh there is, but its not one the proletariat on social media want to accept.

Lol, fanboys downvoting my comment, even though it is totally possible. Even my last comment 28 days ago, which was incidentally against Apple but factually true, was also downvoted. Looks like hacker news is being plagued with fanboys who can't take any valid criticism of their dear Apple Inc. Edit: when I wrote this comment, my original comment was at -4 points.

GoofballJones 7y ago
It’s not the same. These are border guards easily putting spyware on Android phones, since it’s a feature of Android (to load programs). With iOS, you’d have to jailbreak it first, which isn’t a trivial thing to do “while you wait” at the border. That’s all.
- ubersync 7y ago
  You don't need to jailbreak if you have an Apple signed App, which the Chinese Govt. can theoretically force Apple to provide.
  - arcticbull 7y ago
    Will you not see it on the launch screen? I mean, if you wanted a hidden, non-standard launchd type app, you'd have to modify the filesystem, install it, they'd need to create special tooling to do so, and modify the updaters to preserve it across an iOS update, etc. All without anyone at Apple speaking out. Apple refused to create an unlock tool for the US government that was a one-off, to create spyware for China seems like they last thing they'd do. Could they? I guess. Once detected - and it definitely would be (as this was), or leaked by employees - Apple would get bowled over by buyers and the stock market. It's just not in their interests. Their current business model is selling privacy.
  - GoofballJones 7y ago
    Then we need a story like this article confirming that do this too. So far the evidence points to “no”, but that isn’t enough. The transparency report from Apple needs to report this as well.
- 9HZZRfNlpR 7y ago
  Apple is just gonna remotely ship it to you. You can't do business in China without bending over to government. If they want malware there then there will be one.
dang 7y ago
Would you please read the site guidelines? They ask you not to post like this. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html These biases are in the eye of the beholder. People with opposite feelings about Apple (or whatever the corp of the moment is) see exactly the opposite bias.

fiblye 7y ago

I think if news of that got out, the US government would not be happy with one of their companies being complicit in signing Chinese malware. China gets away with a lot of stuff because companies can write it off to spies or other infiltration. Outright approval of it wouldn't go so well, especially after the Huawai affair.

simonh 7y ago

It's not any better (stated as fact) because you hold an unsubstantiated opinion which so far is contradicted by actual reality. Today Android phones have this malware on them and iOS phones do not, so the actual facts in the real world are that iOS is free of this intrusion. That might change, but the situation now is what it is. This is why you are getting downvoted.

efdee 7y ago
No offense, but the idea that "iOS is free of this intrusion" is your unsubstantiated opinion just as much. You don't know that for sure, do you?
- simonh 7y ago
  So far only Android phones are reported as having the software installed on them by border guards. There are no reports of this being done to iPhones. Those are the facts.
  - yorwba 7y ago
    The company building the software also provides equivalents for other operating systems: https://mobile.twitter.com/0xdude/status/1146113174212661249?s=12 https://mobile.twitter.com/0xdude/status/1146113174212661249... We just don't have a sample to reverse-engineer yet.
  - skybrian 7y ago
    Well, they're facts about news reports. Always good to remember that what we know about what's going on in some other part of the world is what people tell us.
    - simonh 7y ago
      I understand that and I think the people downvoting do too. It doesn’t justify knowingly and explicitly stating something as a fact based only on speculation.

onetimemanytime 7y ago

OK, I'll bite: How sure are you?

csomar 7y ago

The US government failed to twist their arms. Very unlikely that China has a lot of power over them. Given how many people they employ in China, they might have actually power over China.

vanilla_nut 7y ago
Conversely, they depend heavily on Chinese manufacturing -- for something like 70% of their production and also rely on Chinese markets for a significant portion of their profits. When Xi comes to Tim Cook with the options: "lose 70% of your manufacturing and 50% of your sales or let us install this app" it's not really an easy choice.
- FrozenTuna 7y ago
  Oh there is, but its not one the proletariat on social media want to accept.