7 ms·

Ask HN: Have you ever had an existential crisis?

70 points by lanrh1836 7y ago

How did you handle it?

dandelion_lover 7y ago
I handled it logically: If there is a meaning of life, we did not find it yet. Therefore it must be beyond our current scientific knowledge. Now, science becomes the new meaning, because it may give us the original meaning. Therefore I devote my life to science. (It is not necessary to be a scientist. Any possibility to help science counts for me.) If there is no meaning at all, then I personally do not understand why people would continue struggle in life. I just cannot accept such situation. I would rather search for the meaning.
- vfinn 7y ago
  What is the struggle if there's no meaning? In my opinion, you struggle only, because there are actually things that mean to you. You cling to things, you yearn for things, and you don't get them. That's the struggle. If you don't want anything, where's the struggle? If you don't want life, you would just fade away, with no struggle. It's self-deceptive to think you don't yearn for things. Maybe it's a way to protect yourself. If you're stuck, try to see the underlying assumptions you have about life, and break them. That, in my opinion, let's you take steps forward.
Pandabob 7y ago
Yup. I guess spending time with family and friends makes it better. At least it does for me. We adopted a dog with my girlfriend this January and I'd say that just spending time with him alleviates it. I'd imagine having kids will have a similar effect (probably 100x stronger). In the newest Indie Hackers podcast [1], founder Aline Learner mentioned that starting a business helps with existential crises because you're so busy worrying about everything else. I'm looking forward to finding out if this holds true to myself in September. [1]: https://www.indiehackers.com/podcast/099-aline-lerner-of-interviewing-io https://www.indiehackers.com/podcast/099-aline-lerner-of-int...
- lampenrad 7y ago
  >I'd imagine having kids will have a similar effect (probably 100x stronger). Sure, but putting the burden of existence on another human to alleviate one‘s existential pain doesn‘t make the problem go away, it only puts it on others that had no say in their own creation. Overall it increases the amount of suffering (unless we‘re talking about adoption in the case of the child, too).
Haghn 7y ago
I found that one of the best advice (successfully tested on myself and others) to help during existential crisis is to remember that someday you are going to die, and work from there. If you knew you were going to die in ten minutes, what will you do ? What will you regret ? What will you wish you had done ? Also this : https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2012/feb/01/top-five-regrets-of-the-dying https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2012/feb/01/top-fiv...
- penguinlover08 7y ago
  so basically Stoicism's negative visualization?
  - Haghn 7y ago
    I am not much experienced with stoicism, so I can't say. My reasoning is that a crisis is generated by an unpleasant situation that may be difficult to identify, thus the feeling of powerlessness. By looking for what you want - or don't - out of life, and in an ideal situation (in front of death, a very personal thing where you don't have to deal with habits, job, or any external pressure), you can identify the elements in your life that suit you or don't, and act on it.
cttet 7y ago
Existential crisis are usually related with "why" questions regarding life. But "why"s are usually of very low priority as it hardly harvest any insights given limited time. It is a helpful tool for human to explore and for scientific progress as it reduces the search spaces of potential actions or models, but not quite necessary helpful for day to day life. So you can remind yourself that in hour mind it always seems that "why" matters a lot, but facts matter more than models and models can always be improved. "why"s are supposed to be a friend to guide us, but if they created problems, just be skeptic from and reevaluate the value of question itself. If your crisis is a "what" crisis rather than "why". It is often easier to cope with, as you only need to open up yourself and remind that all "what" questions are just nomenclature build on immature social/scientific models and never complete. Every "what" question can be altered by a different definition. People often relate existential crisis with nihilist view, but my opinion is that they are not nihilist enough to think through that the existential questions are meaningless or of low priority themselves. [edit] typo
rofo1 7y ago
I vividly remember my first "existential crisis". Well, perhaps that's not the right term for my experience. The first time I had a feeling that once it's over, it's really game over and.. that's it. Very unsettling, cold, indifferent. Who'd care about some carbon remains on some big stone orbiting somewhere in the galaxy? Nobody, no one, and it doesn't mean anything. I was 6 years old. I remember where I was, who was in the room, what were they wearing - it's all etched in my memory. That's one of the strongest feelings I've felt. From time to time, I think about this topic and it's still difficult to accept that we are finite. But, we are and it is what it is. We didn't choose this world; we are here, might as well make the best of it.
cybervegan 7y ago
If humanity has a purpose, it seems to be to destroy the planet.
austincheney 7y ago
Going through one right now. I am old and confident in my skills as a developer. Many of my peers are young and utterly lack the confidence I take for granted. Part of being confident (different than arrogant), and old, is that you have a kind of honesty about your capabilities and the technologies in which you work from experience solving certain problems. You know what is easily capable and what isn't. You know what is necessary and what isn't. You don't need tools, frameworks, gimmicks, or black magic to write your code for you. In many cases you would rather just write an original solution for a given problem because there is a very good change it will be less code, execute faster, and takes less time than dicking around with a bunch of dependencies and their configurations. Another part of getting old is a loss of sensitivity. Either you have moved passed hard problems and grown callous to things that are no longer challenging or your career is stuck stagnating. Let's call that battle scars. This doesn't mean empathy is gone, but it does mean you have lost patience for people who either don't try or make everything an emotional event. I found the culminating collision between old confident developers versus less confident, possibly more sensitive, developers boils down to RTFC (Read The Fucking Code). Here are some frustrating scenarios: * A developer is particular about code style and so they don't RTFC and then misunderstandings occur. * A developer is intimidated when a file contains greater than X lines of code and so they don't RTFC and misunderstandings occur. * A developer refuses to do work without a certain API, framework, or tool and so they refuse to RTFC causing defects to slip into production. * A developer doesn't know what they are doing and make an incomplete attempt to RTFC but refuses to ask questions in order to achieve clarity. * A developer doesn't know what they are doing and finds a piece of code challenging so instead of RTFC they blame everything else, such as coworkers or the programming language, on their failures. * A developer is largely code illiterate and so they pretend to RTFC and then lie about their assessment. This is an existential crisis for me, because I am tired of dicking around with dishonest insecure people whose only professional goal is to achieve easiness (not simplicity). I have a fancy job at one of the largest and most profitable public companies in the US and I am in the process of giving this up and relocating for a change of pace.
fernandokokocha 7y ago
I've felt it from time to time. The books helped me: in the subject, I recommend "Happy" by Derren Brown and "Man's Search for Meaning" by Viktor Frankl. Anything related to stoicism can work as well. Also, not sure if this counts - recently I've been having a feeling that I no more like programming. The reason: I have a different mindset than the vast majority of programmers I met. It feels like either I'm the only one who knows how to do it well, or I'm the only one who doesn't know that. This feeling I've not yet overcome. I will probably try to change the job OR look for a different project / team.
guico 7y ago
Yes, definitely. And I'd assume that questioning "the meaning of it all" is something most people will do at some point. In particular, those who tend to think critically and independently about other questions, which I'm also assuming is a common trait of HN readers. To me, the process was the following: 1. Realizing that society has created many layers of "fabricated" meaning (thinking of things like a successful career, owning a big house, an expensive car, being the best player in the soccer team, etc). I think those will quickly feel superfluous and the fact they are fabricated becomes apparent. They are in fact meaningless. 2. Understand that behind all that fantasy, we're still rather simple (social) animals. And coming to terms with that, helped me find meaning in basic things I'm hard-wired to enjoy: like nurturing the relationships with the ones I love, challenging myself in some sort of dimension (eg. sports, learning), being a positive influence for the younger generation, etc. All in all, I think that questions makes you cut-through the bullshit society has fabricated over the years and go back to the core of what exactly makes you feel well. What makes you feel well, even if it's hard, is what you're supposed to do IMO.
qwerty456127 7y ago
Sure. For my whole life before I realized neither life, nor death, nor the universe nor anything has any meaning and that's ok. There is nothing you must achieve in your life, and nothing you have no choice but to feel a particular way about. Just set yourself free of any conditioning, do whatever you would like (together with probable results of such an action) and feel happy (most of the people believe feelings are exclusively controlled by the circumstances but this is false, with some training you can choose them the same way you choose which direction you will move your arm).
Gustomaximus 7y ago
What I find strange is an existential consideration seems to be largely a negative. Couldnt we call it 'existential realisation' and treat it as a positive Lack of meaning can be a good thing. Realising we're not here to do anyhting great. I'm not going to make anything of significance change. If I dissappear it wont really mater.... ok, that good, now I can get along with my life and not worry about societatal / parental / career etc pressures and follow my path beacuse in the same way I dont matter, your view of me doesnt matter. I am just here and will be treated based on what I put into the world and there is no great plan so get what you can from the journey.
james_s_tayler 7y ago
I used to think from a nihilistic perspective a lot because it seems like the most logical position to take. I'm not depressed or anything and nihilism doesn't at all get me down. I just sort of think it is what it is. Though I do remember I went to see Jordan Peterson live when he came to my city and he said something that made me rethink nihilism as a valid perspective. And it wasn't a religious comment either. He was saying people tend to fall into the trap of thinking that in a million years none of this is going to matter and that they're just one of seven billion people, so they don't really matter etc. Then he said now imagine your 6 year old daughter gets cancer... what do you tell her? That in a million years it isn't going to matter? That she's only 1 of seven billion people, so who cares? And if it's not the answer at a time like that then it's probably not the answer. I dunno... but it struck a chord with me and I've not been able to entertain the nihilistic perspective ever since. Now whenever I find those thoughts coming on and think why on earth do I push so hard or why do I bother with what I do etc... I take on a more cosmic perspective. That through our actions and experiences the universe is able to observe, enjoy and comprehend itself. The point is to be the matter and the energy. The point is to be the experience. Like why do you sit down and watch a movie when you know it's going to end?
sghiassy 7y ago
What is the definition of ‘existential crisis’ in this context?
- irjustin 7y ago
  I imagine it's the overwhelming feeling of "why am i here/why do i exists/what is my purpose in life/what is the meaning of it all?" For me personally, it's usually a passing feeling, but once every few years it grows into a multi-day/week long feeling that borders on depression. Why do I have to work? What am I toiling for? When I die, who cares? Everyone who's died before me - who cares? Those who lived a good, lucky life vs had a terrible one under oppression/torture, why did I get this one? What does it matter? At these points, I tend to take a hard look at life and ask myself "What do I want?" and "What is making me feel this way?" Sometimes I come up with an answer for the 2nd, mostly it's just empty noise (it's existential, so that's kind of expected). So the driving question for me becomes, what do I want?
  - preya2k 7y ago
    I‘m having an episode like you describe it right now. I‘m doing okay now, but I was in a very dark state for about two months. Couldn’t get up in the morning, quit my job, started therapy and medication. Thanks for writing this down. Knowing that other people go through the same stuff, helps a lot.
  - H8crilA 7y ago
    Why should life have any meaning at all? What's the meaning of the life of a squirrel or a Google search query? I'm seriously asking. I found those questions to be ill founded (something like the theme of Tarski's undefinability theorem/liar's paradox/the halting problem). Like really why would you expect it to have any meaning at all? That is pretty grandiose. We're just (unprecedentedly) sophisticated naked apes.
HNLurker2 7y ago
Everyday
jb1991 7y ago
Only if I haven’t had my coffee yet.
- colechristensen 7y ago
  For a while when I was younger I didn't experience hunger very often, I had existential crises instead. It was a bit ridiculous, the world would start crashing down around me, everything about my life would become terrible, unbearable burden... and then I would get to wondering about how long it had been since my last meal. A few bites into the subsequent sandwich and everything was back to normal. Now I just get foggy and easily irritated.
  - omarchowdhury 7y ago
    That sounds like the symptoms of low blood sugar.
    - colechristensen 7y ago
      A retelling: When I was younger the way I experienced low blood sugar from neglecting to eat was a lot more interesting.
vassy 7y ago
Had one a few years ago and I became a nihilist because I couldn't really find a purpose for my existence. I'm not as ambitious when it comes to work. Switched to contacting as a 9 to 5 job and don't touch programming outside of that. I spend more time with family and friends, going to the gym and doing sports, traveling more.
- tasuki 7y ago
  > more time with family and friends, going to the gym and doing sports, traveling more Sounds like a good life. I've seen nihilists who are equanimous (like you appear), and ones who seem rather depressed. I can see how nihilism can lead to either of these outcomes, and wonder what the differentiating factor is.
  - vassy 7y ago
    It could be that I have a loving family (including a cat I've raised since she was a kitten), I'm quite social and have lots of hobbies. Don't get me wrong, there's days when everything falls apart, but usually I see no purpose in being depressed. I only got one chance to live this day and I don't want to waste that time by being sad because life is meaningless.
ecmascript 7y ago
Yes I had one when I was 20 (if you may even call it that), I handled it by thinking logically.
- preya2k 7y ago
  Would you mind explaining how „thinking logically“ helped you with this?
  - ecmascript 7y ago
    Sure, if you put aside your emotions for a second and just think on why you're having a existential crisis you will probably come up with some reasons. For me, the reason was that I wasn't sure if I was heading in the right direction, spending money and time on education. But I realized that is is kind of unnecessary and as long as I enjoy what I do and can continue to do it without any damage to my future possibilities I should probably continue. You can always switch tracks later in life, no harm done. Emotions are rarely logical, they are often very irrational and sudden. If you put aside the emotions for a while and ask yourself if it's really worth it to be upset, the answer is probably going to be no.
aizatto 7y ago
Yes. If by definition "Why am I here? What is purpose?", then yes. I've spent a lot of time "soul searching" by asking myself questions, and also similarly asked people the same questions as well to try to learn from them. I tried to by systematic and log all my efforts too. I put together https://www.deepthoughtapp.com/ https://www.deepthoughtapp.com/ as a means to better understand myself and why I do what I do. Being able to look at past answers has been super helpful in understanding my behavior Maybe some of these keywords may help you. Take the time to answer some of the questions yourself (on paper, in your own notebook/journal) https://www.deepthoughtapp.com/en/keywords/purpose/ https://www.deepthoughtapp.com/en/keywords/purpose/ https://www.deepthoughtapp.com/en/keywords/existential/ https://www.deepthoughtapp.com/en/keywords/existential/ https://www.deepthoughtapp.com/en/keywords/calling/ https://www.deepthoughtapp.com/en/keywords/calling/ https://www.deepthoughtapp.com/en/keywords/meaning/ https://www.deepthoughtapp.com/en/keywords/meaning/
raheelkhan 7y ago
Always, But for me I settle down with my religious preaching in mind. Such as the sole purpose of life is to worhship God. Do good deeds, provide comfort to needy and wait for my time to die. Every step towards good deeds provide satisfaction and every bad act brings mysery.
- preya2k 7y ago
  My existential crisis helped me to be more accepting of religion. I can see how a believe like yours helps you in these situations and who am I to criticize something that helps people feel better (which is what I liked to do before - I’m an atheist).
vinayms 7y ago
In life? No. At work? Yes. How did I handle it? I quit.
abdussamit 7y ago
Yes. Still hits me from time to time, but it mostly happened between when I was 21-24 y/o. I don't know why it happens man, it occurred to me whenever I was faced with a deep-rooted issue, an issue that got me exhausted or worried. For example, one of my colleagues, a new hire, died in an accident 4 days into his new job. It got me thinking why do we even exist, why do we die, why were we sent here? Or when I was bored of life or was so indulged in work that I thought fuck this shit, what am I doing? Why do I even exist? What's the goal? What will happen once we die and get alive again? Even if I do exist, what's the purpose? How did/do I handle with it? Spirituality helps, you pray to God (I'm a Muslim), then you move on. What helps is that most of us are in that crisis so you tell yourself, "Oh, alright. I'm not alone. Guess I just need to drag myself through life.". You get depressed, you get worried, you get panic attacks sometimes, you cry, you have trouble sleeping. But then... then you just wake up and you get some happiness, and then you move on. You just drag yourself. To conclude, I find it weird how I've struggled to put my thoughts into words because I usually am able to explain myself properly. So I don't know? Just keep moving I guess... Sorry I don't think I helped.
- tasuki 7y ago
  > what am I doing? Why do I even exist? What's the goal? > I'm a Muslim I always thought the most attractive thing about religions was that they resolve exactly these questions. Guess it's not so simple.
  - abdussamit 7y ago
    Hah. I still believe religion will lead me to something but such an unknown question with subjective variable answers takes time and great inner self-belief. I'm not too religious so I just crawl around.
colechristensen 7y ago
Yes. They faded away as I approached 30, which was also about the time when my life started to have more of a solid dimension – an end, far away, but not infinitely. Suddenly a dozen different things I wanted to do turned into realizations that each one would take several years and they wouldn't all fit, not a depressing thought but a focusing one. Why am I here? It doesn't really matter, mu, the question is wrong. The question supposes an answer is there and it isn't. Purpose is all made up, pick one if you want one or don't. Zoom way in or way out and nothing could possibly care about the mundane details about what I have for lunch or the history of my civilization. Unless you're doing it for its own purposes fumbling around for meaning isn't a very high quality activity. You should probably do it for a while from time to time, but hanging it up as a dependency for everything else – well nothing comes of it. Strong certainty of purpose always comes off to me as a little bit (or a lot) of insanity. How did I handle it? By spending a lot of really unproductive (or perhaps very productive) time doing nothing interspersed with a bit of active fumbling for meaning often by seeking out sources. The result is more or less "meh" which came with time. I bet I'm due for a big one in five or ten years, but that me will be a different person.
Vinnl 7y ago
It's always been a bit slumbering in the background for me. Then someone I knew committed suicide, with an important reason being that she felt that she could no longer believe what her religious environment had told her growing up, and was left with this existential dread, and couldn't face waking up to that for another couple of decades. Hearing about that rekindled those ideas in me as well. I didn't really deal with it, but I realised that I was still capable of enjoying things in the moment. Hence, my current strategy is: enjoy life while I can, because fear of existential dread is only likely to make it happen sooner. I wouldn't be surprised if I'd get sucked into a depression sooner or later, but who knows, it might never happen.
hyfgfh 7y ago
Today?
extenshun 7y ago
I sometimes get this when I'm tired. So I concentrate on how I feel like that BECAUSE of being tired and aim to look back at those thoughts after a good sleep. When I wake up, I'm fine again.
idoubtit 7y ago
I'm surprised existential crisis is not a common phenomena. Life has no meaning, no purpose. "I saw all the deeds that are done under the sun; and see, all is vanity and a chasing after wind." (Qohelet, in the Bible, about 2300 years ago). So why live? In my case, I examined my options. Purposely dying (including taking extreme risk while mountain climbing, etc) is not an option for now, because it would cause intense suffering for a few people I love. So I have to live on. I don't want to fake exaltation and fill my life with extraordinary activities. It's now hard to find pleasure in novelty: after reading thousands of novels, surprising books are seldom, and the same law applies to music, and most activities, including human interactions. Sometimes I'm just waiting for time to pass. But there's still a bit of feelings and pleasure to be found in the daily blunt life.
- betimsl 7y ago
  You have people who you love and (probably) love you back and yet you want to go? You're a narcissistic ignorant. Lift your head up a little and see the world you dumb idiot. Look at the people dying of hunger all over the world and you're sitting here telling us that you have read thousands of books and now everything is saturated for you instead of celebrating the privileges you have. I hope you live up to 100 and your time passes as slowly as possible because looks like that is the worst possible TORTURE somebody can wish for you.
  - postsantum 7y ago
    This comment looks like a mashed up heap made of typical facebook replies under a public thread about depression. No arguments, just the good old starving african children and "why don't you just cheer up"
  - me_me_me 7y ago
    Yeah exactly. Stop being depressed and just be happy! Easy fix. /s
  - dang 7y ago
    Personal attacks will get you banned here. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and follow the rules from now on. I realize you were probably trying to help someone by giving them a good kick, but that doesn't work on internet forums and breaks the guidelines even if your intent was good. https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=false&page=0&query=by:dang%20tough%20love https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...
preid24 7y ago
Every morning when I do a standup.
agurk 7y ago
I hit a very low point on Friday feeling a lack of meaning in my life. One thing that really helped was having a friend who I could phone and they would just listen. If someone's at a bridge, and phones up the number on the sign for a suicide hotline they'll say something like "I'm going to jump off". The wrong response to this is "Don't do it" or give reasons why it's a bad idea. The correct response is "Why?" It's taken me a long time to end up with a friend who's matured enough to take themselves out of the situation, so that when I phone them up they'll listen and not give me advice and tell me what to/not to do. If the conversation progresses enough, or I ask for advice then my friend might give some as advice does have its place. The trick is knowing where that is. This is of course what a (good) therapist is trained to do, so if you feel there's no-one you can phone up it's an option to explore. The psychological concept of resilience[0] may also be something that's worth exploring, if you want to understand how people cope with bad situations. [0] https://www.apa.org/helpcenter/road-resilience https://www.apa.org/helpcenter/road-resilience
kodz4 7y ago
Doesn't matter what type of crisis it is, just remember you have a Choice in what your mind Focuses on. Remind yourself of that Choice. Have a list of things you can switch focus too - music, going for a run, helping a friend out, planning a trip etc etc. When people don't handle crisis well, it's usually a sign they aren't able to switch focus to something else because they don't have something/anything to switch focus too.
plutonorm 7y ago
Always. Since I was 10years old, I've battled with the knowledge that life has no intrinsic meaning. Sometimes I break free for a few years, but it always comes back around. I'm 38 now and I don't see myself being able to come up with a convincing reason to live anytime soon. I mostly feel empty or sometimes I bubble over with rage, or deep sadness. Sometimes something interesting will catch my eye and I can become involved with it for a time, but I'm not sure I actually enjoy the process. I think perhaps, for me, all the things I want are out of reach. I'm transgender but could never transition. I was fascinated with physics and philosophy, but had untreated ADHD and could never manage to apply my decent intellect to doing well in academia. I don't have any family, never did. My mum died when I was a baby and my father is an abusive alcoholic and couldn't love me. I've tried every drug going, nothing works. I'm empty inside and the world is just as empty. And the world is so cruel, brutal. Not just to me, but to everyone and people are so cruel and arrogant and empty. I want to reach out and save the world, to take away it's pain, but there is nothing anyone can do. It's all just fucked and often I wish I hadn't been born. Also I hate my career and am so lonely working alone all the time. And IT people just don't suit me, I'm just not like them. So maybe the existential depression is just an expression of my own misery and loss of purpose. Also 3 years of therapy did squat.
- dusted 7y ago
  I share some of your experience, (though I'm not transgender and grew up in a loving, supporting family). I recall upsetting my parents when I was about 7, by asking "Why are we alive? Why don't we just die?" I didn't mean it to be depressing, it was just that I didn't "get it", why people do all the things they do, and end up dying anyway. I still feel that way. I've concluded long ago that I'm not particularly depressed, and that the existential crises is not mine but is shared by everyone, it's just that a lot of people don't realize it, or recognize it somehow as such a fundamental property of being alive that they never pay attention to it. I don't hate being here, I like it in general, I have the opportunity to experience things, but that does not mean that there is any intrinsic meaning to life, and that does set some baseline of sadness.
- tasuki 7y ago
  Huggles. I can understand how you feel. > battled with the knowledge that life has no intrinsic meaning Yes, it doesn't. But we can choose our own adventure, create our own meaning. I organize a summer camp for ~50 people. Is there any objective value to it? No - we'll all die and no one will remember. But I derive plenty of subjective value, as do the other participants. Is it worth it to do this? Objectively, no. For me subjectively, yes. Have you read Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl?
resiros 7y ago
Yes, I became a nihilist for some time then I found solace in Islam. The more I thought about it the more I became convinced there is a God and there is a meaning behind all of this. And when I read the Quran it took all the worries from my heart.
- javajosh 7y ago
  I get turning to God for meaning, but why Islam in particular? Did you try reading other holy books?
acconrad 7y ago
I was just talking about this with a friend. I think every few months I have one of these crises. And I don't even know where to begin with talking to a therapist about this. I feel like I would just steamroll the conversation with "look I already know X Y Z about your approach and I understand there's nothing I can do about death, mortality, or the meaninglessness of it all" and start ranting about Kierkegaard and Sartre. So I just spin my wheels enough to exhaust myself and pull myself out of it. I've found meditation to be helpful - but it can be both uplifting and pull me back in. Being in the present can get you to appreciate the fact that you are even living (positive), but that recognition of life's ephemeral nature and it's complete insignificance in the cosmic landscape of the universe can drag you right back down (negative). So long story short: acceptance is helpful. I haven't totally gotten there but it can alleviate the crisis symptoms. In fact I'm currently reading "Radical Acceptance" right now as a means of dealing with this and other issues.

70 points by lanrh1836 7y ago

How did you handle it?

I handled it logically: If there is a meaning of life, we did not find it yet. Therefore it must be beyond our current scientific knowledge. Now, science becomes the new meaning, because it may give us the original meaning. Therefore I devote my life to science. (It is not necessary to be a scientist. Any possibility to help science counts for me.) If there is no meaning at all, then I personally do not understand why people would continue struggle in life. I just cannot accept such situation. I would rather search for the meaning.

vfinn 7y ago
What is the struggle if there's no meaning? In my opinion, you struggle only, because there are actually things that mean to you. You cling to things, you yearn for things, and you don't get them. That's the struggle. If you don't want anything, where's the struggle? If you don't want life, you would just fade away, with no struggle. It's self-deceptive to think you don't yearn for things. Maybe it's a way to protect yourself. If you're stuck, try to see the underlying assumptions you have about life, and break them. That, in my opinion, let's you take steps forward.

Pandabob 7y ago

Yup. I guess spending time with family and friends makes it better. At least it does for me. We adopted a dog with my girlfriend this January and I'd say that just spending time with him alleviates it. I'd imagine having kids will have a similar effect (probably 100x stronger). In the newest Indie Hackers podcast [1], founder Aline Learner mentioned that starting a business helps with existential crises because you're so busy worrying about everything else. I'm looking forward to finding out if this holds true to myself in September. [1]: https://www.indiehackers.com/podcast/099-aline-lerner-of-interviewing-io https://www.indiehackers.com/podcast/099-aline-lerner-of-int...

lampenrad 7y ago
>I'd imagine having kids will have a similar effect (probably 100x stronger). Sure, but putting the burden of existence on another human to alleviate one‘s existential pain doesn‘t make the problem go away, it only puts it on others that had no say in their own creation. Overall it increases the amount of suffering (unless we‘re talking about adoption in the case of the child, too).

Haghn 7y ago

I found that one of the best advice (successfully tested on myself and others) to help during existential crisis is to remember that someday you are going to die, and work from there. If you knew you were going to die in ten minutes, what will you do ? What will you regret ? What will you wish you had done ? Also this : https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2012/feb/01/top-five-regrets-of-the-dying https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2012/feb/01/top-fiv...

penguinlover08 7y ago
so basically Stoicism's negative visualization?
- Haghn 7y ago
  I am not much experienced with stoicism, so I can't say. My reasoning is that a crisis is generated by an unpleasant situation that may be difficult to identify, thus the feeling of powerlessness. By looking for what you want - or don't - out of life, and in an ideal situation (in front of death, a very personal thing where you don't have to deal with habits, job, or any external pressure), you can identify the elements in your life that suit you or don't, and act on it.

cttet 7y ago

Existential crisis are usually related with "why" questions regarding life. But "why"s are usually of very low priority as it hardly harvest any insights given limited time. It is a helpful tool for human to explore and for scientific progress as it reduces the search spaces of potential actions or models, but not quite necessary helpful for day to day life. So you can remind yourself that in hour mind it always seems that "why" matters a lot, but facts matter more than models and models can always be improved. "why"s are supposed to be a friend to guide us, but if they created problems, just be skeptic from and reevaluate the value of question itself. If your crisis is a "what" crisis rather than "why". It is often easier to cope with, as you only need to open up yourself and remind that all "what" questions are just nomenclature build on immature social/scientific models and never complete. Every "what" question can be altered by a different definition. People often relate existential crisis with nihilist view, but my opinion is that they are not nihilist enough to think through that the existential questions are meaningless or of low priority themselves. [edit] typo

rofo1 7y ago

I vividly remember my first "existential crisis". Well, perhaps that's not the right term for my experience. The first time I had a feeling that once it's over, it's really game over and.. that's it. Very unsettling, cold, indifferent. Who'd care about some carbon remains on some big stone orbiting somewhere in the galaxy? Nobody, no one, and it doesn't mean anything. I was 6 years old. I remember where I was, who was in the room, what were they wearing - it's all etched in my memory. That's one of the strongest feelings I've felt. From time to time, I think about this topic and it's still difficult to accept that we are finite. But, we are and it is what it is. We didn't choose this world; we are here, might as well make the best of it.

cybervegan 7y ago

If humanity has a purpose, it seems to be to destroy the planet.

austincheney 7y ago

Going through one right now. I am old and confident in my skills as a developer. Many of my peers are young and utterly lack the confidence I take for granted. Part of being confident (different than arrogant), and old, is that you have a kind of honesty about your capabilities and the technologies in which you work from experience solving certain problems. You know what is easily capable and what isn't. You know what is necessary and what isn't. You don't need tools, frameworks, gimmicks, or black magic to write your code for you. In many cases you would rather just write an original solution for a given problem because there is a very good change it will be less code, execute faster, and takes less time than dicking around with a bunch of dependencies and their configurations. Another part of getting old is a loss of sensitivity. Either you have moved passed hard problems and grown callous to things that are no longer challenging or your career is stuck stagnating. Let's call that battle scars. This doesn't mean empathy is gone, but it does mean you have lost patience for people who either don't try or make everything an emotional event. I found the culminating collision between old confident developers versus less confident, possibly more sensitive, developers boils down to RTFC (Read The Fucking Code). Here are some frustrating scenarios: * A developer is particular about code style and so they don't RTFC and then misunderstandings occur. * A developer is intimidated when a file contains greater than X lines of code and so they don't RTFC and misunderstandings occur. * A developer refuses to do work without a certain API, framework, or tool and so they refuse to RTFC causing defects to slip into production. * A developer doesn't know what they are doing and make an incomplete attempt to RTFC but refuses to ask questions in order to achieve clarity. * A developer doesn't know what they are doing and finds a piece of code challenging so instead of RTFC they blame everything else, such as coworkers or the programming language, on their failures. * A developer is largely code illiterate and so they pretend to RTFC and then lie about their assessment. This is an existential crisis for me, because I am tired of dicking around with dishonest insecure people whose only professional goal is to achieve easiness (not simplicity). I have a fancy job at one of the largest and most profitable public companies in the US and I am in the process of giving this up and relocating for a change of pace.

fernandokokocha 7y ago

I've felt it from time to time. The books helped me: in the subject, I recommend "Happy" by Derren Brown and "Man's Search for Meaning" by Viktor Frankl. Anything related to stoicism can work as well. Also, not sure if this counts - recently I've been having a feeling that I no more like programming. The reason: I have a different mindset than the vast majority of programmers I met. It feels like either I'm the only one who knows how to do it well, or I'm the only one who doesn't know that. This feeling I've not yet overcome. I will probably try to change the job OR look for a different project / team.

guico 7y ago

Yes, definitely. And I'd assume that questioning "the meaning of it all" is something most people will do at some point. In particular, those who tend to think critically and independently about other questions, which I'm also assuming is a common trait of HN readers. To me, the process was the following: 1. Realizing that society has created many layers of "fabricated" meaning (thinking of things like a successful career, owning a big house, an expensive car, being the best player in the soccer team, etc). I think those will quickly feel superfluous and the fact they are fabricated becomes apparent. They are in fact meaningless. 2. Understand that behind all that fantasy, we're still rather simple (social) animals. And coming to terms with that, helped me find meaning in basic things I'm hard-wired to enjoy: like nurturing the relationships with the ones I love, challenging myself in some sort of dimension (eg. sports, learning), being a positive influence for the younger generation, etc. All in all, I think that questions makes you cut-through the bullshit society has fabricated over the years and go back to the core of what exactly makes you feel well. What makes you feel well, even if it's hard, is what you're supposed to do IMO.

qwerty456127 7y ago

Sure. For my whole life before I realized neither life, nor death, nor the universe nor anything has any meaning and that's ok. There is nothing you must achieve in your life, and nothing you have no choice but to feel a particular way about. Just set yourself free of any conditioning, do whatever you would like (together with probable results of such an action) and feel happy (most of the people believe feelings are exclusively controlled by the circumstances but this is false, with some training you can choose them the same way you choose which direction you will move your arm).

Gustomaximus 7y ago

What I find strange is an existential consideration seems to be largely a negative. Couldnt we call it 'existential realisation' and treat it as a positive Lack of meaning can be a good thing. Realising we're not here to do anyhting great. I'm not going to make anything of significance change. If I dissappear it wont really mater.... ok, that good, now I can get along with my life and not worry about societatal / parental / career etc pressures and follow my path beacuse in the same way I dont matter, your view of me doesnt matter. I am just here and will be treated based on what I put into the world and there is no great plan so get what you can from the journey.

james_s_tayler 7y ago

I used to think from a nihilistic perspective a lot because it seems like the most logical position to take. I'm not depressed or anything and nihilism doesn't at all get me down. I just sort of think it is what it is. Though I do remember I went to see Jordan Peterson live when he came to my city and he said something that made me rethink nihilism as a valid perspective. And it wasn't a religious comment either. He was saying people tend to fall into the trap of thinking that in a million years none of this is going to matter and that they're just one of seven billion people, so they don't really matter etc. Then he said now imagine your 6 year old daughter gets cancer... what do you tell her? That in a million years it isn't going to matter? That she's only 1 of seven billion people, so who cares? And if it's not the answer at a time like that then it's probably not the answer. I dunno... but it struck a chord with me and I've not been able to entertain the nihilistic perspective ever since. Now whenever I find those thoughts coming on and think why on earth do I push so hard or why do I bother with what I do etc... I take on a more cosmic perspective. That through our actions and experiences the universe is able to observe, enjoy and comprehend itself. The point is to be the matter and the energy. The point is to be the experience. Like why do you sit down and watch a movie when you know it's going to end?

sghiassy 7y ago

What is the definition of ‘existential crisis’ in this context?

irjustin 7y ago
I imagine it's the overwhelming feeling of "why am i here/why do i exists/what is my purpose in life/what is the meaning of it all?" For me personally, it's usually a passing feeling, but once every few years it grows into a multi-day/week long feeling that borders on depression. Why do I have to work? What am I toiling for? When I die, who cares? Everyone who's died before me - who cares? Those who lived a good, lucky life vs had a terrible one under oppression/torture, why did I get this one? What does it matter? At these points, I tend to take a hard look at life and ask myself "What do I want?" and "What is making me feel this way?" Sometimes I come up with an answer for the 2nd, mostly it's just empty noise (it's existential, so that's kind of expected). So the driving question for me becomes, what do I want?
- preya2k 7y ago
  I‘m having an episode like you describe it right now. I‘m doing okay now, but I was in a very dark state for about two months. Couldn’t get up in the morning, quit my job, started therapy and medication. Thanks for writing this down. Knowing that other people go through the same stuff, helps a lot.
- H8crilA 7y ago
  Why should life have any meaning at all? What's the meaning of the life of a squirrel or a Google search query? I'm seriously asking. I found those questions to be ill founded (something like the theme of Tarski's undefinability theorem/liar's paradox/the halting problem). Like really why would you expect it to have any meaning at all? That is pretty grandiose. We're just (unprecedentedly) sophisticated naked apes.

HNLurker2 7y ago

Everyday

jb1991 7y ago

Only if I haven’t had my coffee yet.

colechristensen 7y ago
For a while when I was younger I didn't experience hunger very often, I had existential crises instead. It was a bit ridiculous, the world would start crashing down around me, everything about my life would become terrible, unbearable burden... and then I would get to wondering about how long it had been since my last meal. A few bites into the subsequent sandwich and everything was back to normal. Now I just get foggy and easily irritated.
- omarchowdhury 7y ago
  That sounds like the symptoms of low blood sugar.
  - colechristensen 7y ago
    A retelling: When I was younger the way I experienced low blood sugar from neglecting to eat was a lot more interesting.

vassy 7y ago

Had one a few years ago and I became a nihilist because I couldn't really find a purpose for my existence. I'm not as ambitious when it comes to work. Switched to contacting as a 9 to 5 job and don't touch programming outside of that. I spend more time with family and friends, going to the gym and doing sports, traveling more.

tasuki 7y ago
> more time with family and friends, going to the gym and doing sports, traveling more Sounds like a good life. I've seen nihilists who are equanimous (like you appear), and ones who seem rather depressed. I can see how nihilism can lead to either of these outcomes, and wonder what the differentiating factor is.
- vassy 7y ago
  It could be that I have a loving family (including a cat I've raised since she was a kitten), I'm quite social and have lots of hobbies. Don't get me wrong, there's days when everything falls apart, but usually I see no purpose in being depressed. I only got one chance to live this day and I don't want to waste that time by being sad because life is meaningless.

ecmascript 7y ago

Yes I had one when I was 20 (if you may even call it that), I handled it by thinking logically.

preya2k 7y ago
Would you mind explaining how „thinking logically“ helped you with this?
- ecmascript 7y ago
  Sure, if you put aside your emotions for a second and just think on why you're having a existential crisis you will probably come up with some reasons. For me, the reason was that I wasn't sure if I was heading in the right direction, spending money and time on education. But I realized that is is kind of unnecessary and as long as I enjoy what I do and can continue to do it without any damage to my future possibilities I should probably continue. You can always switch tracks later in life, no harm done. Emotions are rarely logical, they are often very irrational and sudden. If you put aside the emotions for a while and ask yourself if it's really worth it to be upset, the answer is probably going to be no.

aizatto 7y ago

Yes. If by definition "Why am I here? What is purpose?", then yes. I've spent a lot of time "soul searching" by asking myself questions, and also similarly asked people the same questions as well to try to learn from them. I tried to by systematic and log all my efforts too. I put together https://www.deepthoughtapp.com/ https://www.deepthoughtapp.com/ as a means to better understand myself and why I do what I do. Being able to look at past answers has been super helpful in understanding my behavior Maybe some of these keywords may help you. Take the time to answer some of the questions yourself (on paper, in your own notebook/journal) https://www.deepthoughtapp.com/en/keywords/purpose/ https://www.deepthoughtapp.com/en/keywords/purpose/ https://www.deepthoughtapp.com/en/keywords/existential/ https://www.deepthoughtapp.com/en/keywords/existential/ https://www.deepthoughtapp.com/en/keywords/calling/ https://www.deepthoughtapp.com/en/keywords/calling/ https://www.deepthoughtapp.com/en/keywords/meaning/ https://www.deepthoughtapp.com/en/keywords/meaning/

raheelkhan 7y ago

Always, But for me I settle down with my religious preaching in mind. Such as the sole purpose of life is to worhship God. Do good deeds, provide comfort to needy and wait for my time to die. Every step towards good deeds provide satisfaction and every bad act brings mysery.

preya2k 7y ago
My existential crisis helped me to be more accepting of religion. I can see how a believe like yours helps you in these situations and who am I to criticize something that helps people feel better (which is what I liked to do before - I’m an atheist).

vinayms 7y ago

In life? No. At work? Yes. How did I handle it? I quit.

abdussamit 7y ago

Yes. Still hits me from time to time, but it mostly happened between when I was 21-24 y/o. I don't know why it happens man, it occurred to me whenever I was faced with a deep-rooted issue, an issue that got me exhausted or worried. For example, one of my colleagues, a new hire, died in an accident 4 days into his new job. It got me thinking why do we even exist, why do we die, why were we sent here? Or when I was bored of life or was so indulged in work that I thought fuck this shit, what am I doing? Why do I even exist? What's the goal? What will happen once we die and get alive again? Even if I do exist, what's the purpose? How did/do I handle with it? Spirituality helps, you pray to God (I'm a Muslim), then you move on. What helps is that most of us are in that crisis so you tell yourself, "Oh, alright. I'm not alone. Guess I just need to drag myself through life.". You get depressed, you get worried, you get panic attacks sometimes, you cry, you have trouble sleeping. But then... then you just wake up and you get some happiness, and then you move on. You just drag yourself. To conclude, I find it weird how I've struggled to put my thoughts into words because I usually am able to explain myself properly. So I don't know? Just keep moving I guess... Sorry I don't think I helped.

tasuki 7y ago
> what am I doing? Why do I even exist? What's the goal? > I'm a Muslim I always thought the most attractive thing about religions was that they resolve exactly these questions. Guess it's not so simple.
- abdussamit 7y ago
  Hah. I still believe religion will lead me to something but such an unknown question with subjective variable answers takes time and great inner self-belief. I'm not too religious so I just crawl around.

colechristensen 7y ago

Yes. They faded away as I approached 30, which was also about the time when my life started to have more of a solid dimension – an end, far away, but not infinitely. Suddenly a dozen different things I wanted to do turned into realizations that each one would take several years and they wouldn't all fit, not a depressing thought but a focusing one. Why am I here? It doesn't really matter, mu, the question is wrong. The question supposes an answer is there and it isn't. Purpose is all made up, pick one if you want one or don't. Zoom way in or way out and nothing could possibly care about the mundane details about what I have for lunch or the history of my civilization. Unless you're doing it for its own purposes fumbling around for meaning isn't a very high quality activity. You should probably do it for a while from time to time, but hanging it up as a dependency for everything else – well nothing comes of it. Strong certainty of purpose always comes off to me as a little bit (or a lot) of insanity. How did I handle it? By spending a lot of really unproductive (or perhaps very productive) time doing nothing interspersed with a bit of active fumbling for meaning often by seeking out sources. The result is more or less "meh" which came with time. I bet I'm due for a big one in five or ten years, but that me will be a different person.

Vinnl 7y ago

It's always been a bit slumbering in the background for me. Then someone I knew committed suicide, with an important reason being that she felt that she could no longer believe what her religious environment had told her growing up, and was left with this existential dread, and couldn't face waking up to that for another couple of decades. Hearing about that rekindled those ideas in me as well. I didn't really deal with it, but I realised that I was still capable of enjoying things in the moment. Hence, my current strategy is: enjoy life while I can, because fear of existential dread is only likely to make it happen sooner. I wouldn't be surprised if I'd get sucked into a depression sooner or later, but who knows, it might never happen.

hyfgfh 7y ago

Today?

extenshun 7y ago

I sometimes get this when I'm tired. So I concentrate on how I feel like that BECAUSE of being tired and aim to look back at those thoughts after a good sleep. When I wake up, I'm fine again.

idoubtit 7y ago

I'm surprised existential crisis is not a common phenomena. Life has no meaning, no purpose. "I saw all the deeds that are done under the sun; and see, all is vanity and a chasing after wind." (Qohelet, in the Bible, about 2300 years ago). So why live? In my case, I examined my options. Purposely dying (including taking extreme risk while mountain climbing, etc) is not an option for now, because it would cause intense suffering for a few people I love. So I have to live on. I don't want to fake exaltation and fill my life with extraordinary activities. It's now hard to find pleasure in novelty: after reading thousands of novels, surprising books are seldom, and the same law applies to music, and most activities, including human interactions. Sometimes I'm just waiting for time to pass. But there's still a bit of feelings and pleasure to be found in the daily blunt life.

betimsl 7y ago
You have people who you love and (probably) love you back and yet you want to go? You're a narcissistic ignorant. Lift your head up a little and see the world you dumb idiot. Look at the people dying of hunger all over the world and you're sitting here telling us that you have read thousands of books and now everything is saturated for you instead of celebrating the privileges you have. I hope you live up to 100 and your time passes as slowly as possible because looks like that is the worst possible TORTURE somebody can wish for you.
- postsantum 7y ago
  This comment looks like a mashed up heap made of typical facebook replies under a public thread about depression. No arguments, just the good old starving african children and "why don't you just cheer up"
- me_me_me 7y ago
  Yeah exactly. Stop being depressed and just be happy! Easy fix. /s
- dang 7y ago
  Personal attacks will get you banned here. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and follow the rules from now on. I realize you were probably trying to help someone by giving them a good kick, but that doesn't work on internet forums and breaks the guidelines even if your intent was good. https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=false&page=0&query=by:dang%20tough%20love https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...

preid24 7y ago

Every morning when I do a standup.

agurk 7y ago

I hit a very low point on Friday feeling a lack of meaning in my life. One thing that really helped was having a friend who I could phone and they would just listen. If someone's at a bridge, and phones up the number on the sign for a suicide hotline they'll say something like "I'm going to jump off". The wrong response to this is "Don't do it" or give reasons why it's a bad idea. The correct response is "Why?" It's taken me a long time to end up with a friend who's matured enough to take themselves out of the situation, so that when I phone them up they'll listen and not give me advice and tell me what to/not to do. If the conversation progresses enough, or I ask for advice then my friend might give some as advice does have its place. The trick is knowing where that is. This is of course what a (good) therapist is trained to do, so if you feel there's no-one you can phone up it's an option to explore. The psychological concept of resilience[0] may also be something that's worth exploring, if you want to understand how people cope with bad situations. [0] https://www.apa.org/helpcenter/road-resilience https://www.apa.org/helpcenter/road-resilience

kodz4 7y ago

Doesn't matter what type of crisis it is, just remember you have a Choice in what your mind Focuses on. Remind yourself of that Choice. Have a list of things you can switch focus too - music, going for a run, helping a friend out, planning a trip etc etc. When people don't handle crisis well, it's usually a sign they aren't able to switch focus to something else because they don't have something/anything to switch focus too.

plutonorm 7y ago

Always. Since I was 10years old, I've battled with the knowledge that life has no intrinsic meaning. Sometimes I break free for a few years, but it always comes back around. I'm 38 now and I don't see myself being able to come up with a convincing reason to live anytime soon. I mostly feel empty or sometimes I bubble over with rage, or deep sadness. Sometimes something interesting will catch my eye and I can become involved with it for a time, but I'm not sure I actually enjoy the process. I think perhaps, for me, all the things I want are out of reach. I'm transgender but could never transition. I was fascinated with physics and philosophy, but had untreated ADHD and could never manage to apply my decent intellect to doing well in academia. I don't have any family, never did. My mum died when I was a baby and my father is an abusive alcoholic and couldn't love me. I've tried every drug going, nothing works. I'm empty inside and the world is just as empty. And the world is so cruel, brutal. Not just to me, but to everyone and people are so cruel and arrogant and empty. I want to reach out and save the world, to take away it's pain, but there is nothing anyone can do. It's all just fucked and often I wish I hadn't been born. Also I hate my career and am so lonely working alone all the time. And IT people just don't suit me, I'm just not like them. So maybe the existential depression is just an expression of my own misery and loss of purpose. Also 3 years of therapy did squat.

dusted 7y ago
I share some of your experience, (though I'm not transgender and grew up in a loving, supporting family). I recall upsetting my parents when I was about 7, by asking "Why are we alive? Why don't we just die?" I didn't mean it to be depressing, it was just that I didn't "get it", why people do all the things they do, and end up dying anyway. I still feel that way. I've concluded long ago that I'm not particularly depressed, and that the existential crises is not mine but is shared by everyone, it's just that a lot of people don't realize it, or recognize it somehow as such a fundamental property of being alive that they never pay attention to it. I don't hate being here, I like it in general, I have the opportunity to experience things, but that does not mean that there is any intrinsic meaning to life, and that does set some baseline of sadness.
tasuki 7y ago
Huggles. I can understand how you feel. > battled with the knowledge that life has no intrinsic meaning Yes, it doesn't. But we can choose our own adventure, create our own meaning. I organize a summer camp for ~50 people. Is there any objective value to it? No - we'll all die and no one will remember. But I derive plenty of subjective value, as do the other participants. Is it worth it to do this? Objectively, no. For me subjectively, yes. Have you read Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl?

resiros 7y ago

Yes, I became a nihilist for some time then I found solace in Islam. The more I thought about it the more I became convinced there is a God and there is a meaning behind all of this. And when I read the Quran it took all the worries from my heart.

javajosh 7y ago
I get turning to God for meaning, but why Islam in particular? Did you try reading other holy books?

acconrad 7y ago

I was just talking about this with a friend. I think every few months I have one of these crises. And I don't even know where to begin with talking to a therapist about this. I feel like I would just steamroll the conversation with "look I already know X Y Z about your approach and I understand there's nothing I can do about death, mortality, or the meaninglessness of it all" and start ranting about Kierkegaard and Sartre. So I just spin my wheels enough to exhaust myself and pull myself out of it. I've found meditation to be helpful - but it can be both uplifting and pull me back in. Being in the present can get you to appreciate the fact that you are even living (positive), but that recognition of life's ephemeral nature and it's complete insignificance in the cosmic landscape of the universe can drag you right back down (negative). So long story short: acceptance is helpful. I haven't totally gotten there but it can alleviate the crisis symptoms. In fact I'm currently reading "Radical Acceptance" right now as a means of dealing with this and other issues.