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Bobby Baker, who was one of Lyndon Johnson's closest aides, had this to say about Robert McNamara (who was Secretary of Defense during the Vietnam War): "The b

Bobby Baker, who was one of Lyndon Johnson's closest aides, had this to say about Robert McNamara (who was Secretary of Defense during the Vietnam War): "The biggest disaster in the history of this country was [Robert] McNamara. Henry Ford was my good friend and he said, “The best thing that ever happened to me was getting rid of that bastard.” He almost wrecked Ford back then, and he really wrecked the Defense Department. The Vietnam War - President Johnson did not know how to get out - that was the greatest tragedy of his Presidency." Source: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/836424-baker-text.html#document/p22 https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/836424-baker-text.ht... (The whole interview is really worth reading and is full of sordid tales about the Senate in the 1960s).

scottlocklin 7y ago
Baker is himself a pretty fascinating figure for a peep into the insane corruption of mid-20th century US politics. Basically the fella was a pimp who ran a private intel/blackmail service using his ladies.
- paganel 7y ago
  > insane corruption of mid-20th century US politics Not sure things have changed that much in the meantime, to be honest. Nowadays you've got the US Dept. of Education being run by the sister of the guy that runs one of the biggest and most despicable mercenary companies in the world, and regarding sex-related blackmail I still regard the escort-related thing that happened to Eliot Spitzer as a blatant set-up. If it matters I'm not an American and I've never set foot in the States, these are just my opinions on the American political life as seen from half a world away.
  - scottlocklin 7y ago
    I agree with you completely (as an American), and I always bring up Bobby Baker specifically to get fellow Americans thinking in this direction. I mean, this is known -it's even in his Wikipedia entry. Imagine all the filthy tricks going on elsewhere in the modern day with small recording devices. Spitzer was probably a setup. I also look at Dennis Hastert as being controlled by someone. He was eventually convicted of money laundering to cover up raping a young boy. American media acted like it never happened!
    - lowdose 7y ago
      What about Dominique Strauss Kahn as president of the IMF at the time. People in finance where referring to a certain position in the market as the London whale.
      - scottlocklin 7y ago
        Yes, I remember this. I wonder what a proper historian would do with modern life? Court intrigues didn't go away with Royalty: they just more pervasive. Yes, I feel like a prophet mentioning this before Epstein was arrested again....
walrus01 7y ago
In later life McNamara was pretty forthcoming about his own past failings, if you watch this documentary. I cannot recommend it highly enough. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fog_of_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fog_of_War
- mongol 7y ago
  It is a very good documentary. But the "what if" scenario if he had stayed with Ford was not so discussed.
noelherrick 7y ago
If you believe that the tragedy of the Vietnam war was due to one man, I have a bridge to sell you. The sheer hyperbole of saying that greatest disaster in American history was a single man should make you immediately question the speaker. Note that this quote was from a 2009 interview - so Baker had Nixon, 9/11, Iraq/Afghanistan and all the other much, much darker times in American history to choose from. I would also reject that the idea that he was a particularly bad actor in the Vietnam War. There were so many presidents and generals that didn't realize what was happening and messed things up royally. Just read about how out of touch Westmoreland was. This is like blaming the goalie or the kicker for losing a game when it's actually the combined efforts of the whole team over the entire game that wins or loses a match. The other speaker in the quote is Ford - who we should note is called by Iacocca as 95% jerk - apparently, he didn't get along with anybody. Other people credit McNamara and his fellow Air Force buddies as turning Ford around after World War II. Wikipedia even says that Henry Ford II made him president (although it was only for 5 weeks). (I'm not a defender of McNamara, but I also think this lopsided view of him is unjustified - we need to have nuance in the way we view people)
- flunhat 7y ago
  I agree with you -- I just think it's funny how these two completely different sources dunked on McNamara. Bobby Baker seems like he wanted to redeem his image (and Lyndon Johnson's image, too, I think), so you can see this as an attempt to shift blame.

scottlocklin 7y ago

Baker is himself a pretty fascinating figure for a peep into the insane corruption of mid-20th century US politics. Basically the fella was a pimp who ran a private intel/blackmail service using his ladies.

paganel 7y ago
> insane corruption of mid-20th century US politics Not sure things have changed that much in the meantime, to be honest. Nowadays you've got the US Dept. of Education being run by the sister of the guy that runs one of the biggest and most despicable mercenary companies in the world, and regarding sex-related blackmail I still regard the escort-related thing that happened to Eliot Spitzer as a blatant set-up. If it matters I'm not an American and I've never set foot in the States, these are just my opinions on the American political life as seen from half a world away.
- scottlocklin 7y ago
  I agree with you completely (as an American), and I always bring up Bobby Baker specifically to get fellow Americans thinking in this direction. I mean, this is known -it's even in his Wikipedia entry. Imagine all the filthy tricks going on elsewhere in the modern day with small recording devices. Spitzer was probably a setup. I also look at Dennis Hastert as being controlled by someone. He was eventually convicted of money laundering to cover up raping a young boy. American media acted like it never happened!
  - lowdose 7y ago
    What about Dominique Strauss Kahn as president of the IMF at the time. People in finance where referring to a certain position in the market as the London whale.
    - scottlocklin 7y ago
      Yes, I remember this. I wonder what a proper historian would do with modern life? Court intrigues didn't go away with Royalty: they just more pervasive. Yes, I feel like a prophet mentioning this before Epstein was arrested again....

walrus01 7y ago

In later life McNamara was pretty forthcoming about his own past failings, if you watch this documentary. I cannot recommend it highly enough. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fog_of_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fog_of_War

mongol 7y ago
It is a very good documentary. But the "what if" scenario if he had stayed with Ford was not so discussed.

noelherrick 7y ago

If you believe that the tragedy of the Vietnam war was due to one man, I have a bridge to sell you. The sheer hyperbole of saying that greatest disaster in American history was a single man should make you immediately question the speaker. Note that this quote was from a 2009 interview - so Baker had Nixon, 9/11, Iraq/Afghanistan and all the other much, much darker times in American history to choose from. I would also reject that the idea that he was a particularly bad actor in the Vietnam War. There were so many presidents and generals that didn't realize what was happening and messed things up royally. Just read about how out of touch Westmoreland was. This is like blaming the goalie or the kicker for losing a game when it's actually the combined efforts of the whole team over the entire game that wins or loses a match. The other speaker in the quote is Ford - who we should note is called by Iacocca as 95% jerk - apparently, he didn't get along with anybody. Other people credit McNamara and his fellow Air Force buddies as turning Ford around after World War II. Wikipedia even says that Henry Ford II made him president (although it was only for 5 weeks). (I'm not a defender of McNamara, but I also think this lopsided view of him is unjustified - we need to have nuance in the way we view people)

flunhat 7y ago
I agree with you -- I just think it's funny how these two completely different sources dunked on McNamara. Bobby Baker seems like he wanted to redeem his image (and Lyndon Johnson's image, too, I think), so you can see this as an attempt to shift blame.