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False. Global solutions can come from decentralized market forces if you don’t have corruption hijacking the effort. All countries, except the US are on board a

False. Global solutions can come from decentralized market forces if you don’t have corruption hijacking the effort. All countries, except the US are on board and would arguably be moving faster and more aggressively if the US were leading rather than sabotaging efforts. Governments rightful role, whether its local, regional, national, or global is to set the rules of markets so that their natural forces move for an efficient and utility creating end. The market may demand child labor but government on any scale rightly intercedes to short circuit the market drive because it destroys utility (happiness or wellbeing) of the children and, in the long term, society as a whole as the population is less educated, healthy, and equal. Further, I’d actually argue that most individual autonomy is stripped at the local level. You’re homeowners association can do more to rob you of individual liberty as the UN. In fact, I’d argue the global institutions, in some meaningful ways, have been the biggest drivers of restoring individual liberty. You might not feel it if you live in a market driven democracy; but the facts of development over the last 80 years, the increase liberty globally speak for themselves.

rayiner 7y ago
> False. Global solutions can come from decentralized market forces if you don’t have corruption hijacking the effort. Wrong for two reasons. 1) Market forces will not address things like climate change without government intervention to force externalities to be internalized. For many reasons that have nothing to do with "corruption," governments are disincentivized to force perfect internalization of externalities. In places like China, the government is massively subsidizing infrastructure development (and creating a large resulting carbon impact). In places like the U.S., keeping energy artificially cheap is a key way to keep voters happy. 2) Even if policies were imposed to force externalities to be internalized, there is no reason to believe that market forces will reach an equilibrium on the very short time scales (one or two decades) that we're talking about. > You might not feel it if you live in a market driven democracy; To the contrary, I do. But folks talking about a "Green New Deal" that make me nervous about whether I'll continue to live in a market driven democracy.
- digitaltrees 7y ago
  Actually the vast majority of humanity wants aggressive action on climate solutions but US government subsidizes overwhelmingly go to oil production not clean energy. If market forces were actually able to play out, there would be faster movement than there has been. I say this as someone very much in favor of governmental solutions to problems like health care, climate change, basic infrastructure, education and recognize that markets often fail to address certain types of problems. I am not a small or anti government libertarian by any measure. I just think we have reached a critical mass of support with most people wanting solutions that if the cynical manipulation of the argument and disingenuous “debate” that is only trying to cast doubt to keep the oil money flowing were to stop the market would act fast.

rayiner 7y ago

> False. Global solutions can come from decentralized market forces if you don’t have corruption hijacking the effort. Wrong for two reasons. 1) Market forces will not address things like climate change without government intervention to force externalities to be internalized. For many reasons that have nothing to do with "corruption," governments are disincentivized to force perfect internalization of externalities. In places like China, the government is massively subsidizing infrastructure development (and creating a large resulting carbon impact). In places like the U.S., keeping energy artificially cheap is a key way to keep voters happy. 2) Even if policies were imposed to force externalities to be internalized, there is no reason to believe that market forces will reach an equilibrium on the very short time scales (one or two decades) that we're talking about. > You might not feel it if you live in a market driven democracy; To the contrary, I do. But folks talking about a "Green New Deal" that make me nervous about whether I'll continue to live in a market driven democracy.

digitaltrees 7y ago
Actually the vast majority of humanity wants aggressive action on climate solutions but US government subsidizes overwhelmingly go to oil production not clean energy. If market forces were actually able to play out, there would be faster movement than there has been. I say this as someone very much in favor of governmental solutions to problems like health care, climate change, basic infrastructure, education and recognize that markets often fail to address certain types of problems. I am not a small or anti government libertarian by any measure. I just think we have reached a critical mass of support with most people wanting solutions that if the cynical manipulation of the argument and disingenuous “debate” that is only trying to cast doubt to keep the oil money flowing were to stop the market would act fast.