5 ms·

.DS_Store

71 points by rubyn00bie 7y ago

gumby 7y ago
I have been glad these are user-visible files rather than some obscure FS metadata (xattrs) that get lost or propagated unpredictably by various tools. The way they did it means I can delete 'em or keep 'em depending on what I want to accomplish and that the'll work on any filesystem.
laurent123456 7y ago
7M+ .DS_Store on GitHub - https://github.com/search?q=filename%3A.DS_Store&type=Code https://github.com/search?q=filename%3A.DS_Store&type=Code
aventrix 7y ago
Think about the amount of man hours people have spent deleting these files from repositories, USB drives, archives... They spread like a virus.
- paranoidrobot 7y ago
  When I set up new fileshares at work I used Filescreen templates to stop those being created on network shares (Example [1]). Gnome creates it's own too, and I wish it would stop - the only solution seems to be to recompile libgio with the trash method redirected to delete[2]. [1] https://dea.nbird.com.au/2014/11/19/windows-server-prevent-mac-files-on-shares-ds_store-_-trashes/ https://dea.nbird.com.au/2014/11/19/windows-server-prevent-m... [2] https://askubuntu.com/questions/229098/how-to-i-stop-ubuntu-making-trash-folder-in-each-device https://askubuntu.com/questions/229098/how-to-i-stop-ubuntu-...
kstenerud 7y ago
That's not the only problem. Apple leaves a whole bunch of "mac droppings" all over the place: https://github.com/github/gitignore/blob/master/Global/macOS.gitignore https://github.com/github/gitignore/blob/master/Global/macOS... The worst part is that .DS_Store assumes, even on remote (SMB) filesystems, that only one machine will ever be accessing the directory, and so stores things like view settings and icon positions and such. Which means that every mac computer that accesses that file share will be fighting with each other, overwriting their metadata, and sometimes triggering problems because one has half-overwritten the file while another is accessing it. That metadata should have been stored locally on the mac (with info about what path it refers to), not on the remote system. Overall, it's a very poorly designed feature.
- jakobegger 7y ago
  But it was pretty neat that you could arrange icons on a floppy disks and then give it to someone else and the icons were in the same position on their computer.
  - matt-attack 7y ago
    It’s still relevant today for external drives.
    - quux 7y ago
      Disk images, which is how a lot of mac software is distributed also use this feature.
- sfoley 7y ago
  My guess as to the reason they’re in the directory rather than a separate folder is so you can rename/move it without losing all your metadata.
  - andreareina 7y ago
    The filesystem already keeps track of moves/renames -- I can (and have) moved the files that the App Store downloads, and it still knows where they are.
philshem 7y ago
Just seeing this post among the others activates my instinct to delete the title.
ErikAugust 7y ago
This has lead me to the idea of a “gitignore” for HN article title names.
- russh 7y ago
  Not a bad idea.
jimbo1qaz 7y ago
This is analogous to desktop.ini on Windows Explorer, or .directory on KDE Dolphin.
acomjean 7y ago
I thought those files were a compromise when apple went to OS_X and got rid of the old "resource fork" park of the mac OS finder system. This data was part of the file, and let the operating system know which program to open the file with (even if it didn't have a .ext). But it made it hard to interopt.. But I might be a little off. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_fork https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_fork http://mirror.informatimago.com/next/developer.apple.com/documentation/mac/MoreToolbox/MoreToolbox-11.html http://mirror.informatimago.com/next/developer.apple.com/doc...
klingonopera 7y ago
Veto'ing these files on Linux SMB servers along with ".thumb" files is one of the most satisfying things I have ever done as a network administrator. [1]: https://www.samba.org/samba/docs/current/man-html/smb.conf.5.html#VETOFILES https://www.samba.org/samba/docs/current/man-html/smb.conf.5...
klingonopera 7y ago
These temporary files are terrible! I don't know which major Windows version started with the ".thumb" and "desktop.ini" files, but if I tell my OS to navigate and display me contents of a folder, please don't change anything in that folder! You should be assuming "read-only" as often as possible, and only assume anything else when explicitly stated to do so. But instead, they create thumbnails. In the very same source folder. Shouldn't this stuff go on some cache in your windows directory?
- mrguyorama 7y ago
  The wikipedia links to a similar article on the windows thumbnail cache, where it claims from Vista onward that Windows has a central cache location for thumbnail caches.
  - klingonopera 7y ago
    Ah yes, that explains why "thumbs.db" is no longer a thing and was mostly remnants left over from the XP days...
- garaetjjte 7y ago
  Another thing is that 'System Volume Information' created on removable drives. And Android too creates its directory structure on every mounted drive..
burfog 7y ago
I got data loss when OLPC's Sugar desktop did this. I put the SD card into the machine to undelete something, and Sugar promptly overwrote my data by adding some useless nonsense desktop file. For all these sorts of things, I really truly think "How dare they!" and much worse. It fills me with rage that an OS would do this.

71 points by rubyn00bie 7y ago

I have been glad these are user-visible files rather than some obscure FS metadata (xattrs) that get lost or propagated unpredictably by various tools. The way they did it means I can delete 'em or keep 'em depending on what I want to accomplish and that the'll work on any filesystem.

laurent123456 7y ago

7M+ .DS_Store on GitHub - https://github.com/search?q=filename%3A.DS_Store&type=Code https://github.com/search?q=filename%3A.DS_Store&type=Code

aventrix 7y ago

Think about the amount of man hours people have spent deleting these files from repositories, USB drives, archives... They spread like a virus.

paranoidrobot 7y ago
When I set up new fileshares at work I used Filescreen templates to stop those being created on network shares (Example [1]). Gnome creates it's own too, and I wish it would stop - the only solution seems to be to recompile libgio with the trash method redirected to delete[2]. [1] https://dea.nbird.com.au/2014/11/19/windows-server-prevent-mac-files-on-shares-ds_store-_-trashes/ https://dea.nbird.com.au/2014/11/19/windows-server-prevent-m... [2] https://askubuntu.com/questions/229098/how-to-i-stop-ubuntu-making-trash-folder-in-each-device https://askubuntu.com/questions/229098/how-to-i-stop-ubuntu-...

kstenerud 7y ago

That's not the only problem. Apple leaves a whole bunch of "mac droppings" all over the place: https://github.com/github/gitignore/blob/master/Global/macOS.gitignore https://github.com/github/gitignore/blob/master/Global/macOS... The worst part is that .DS_Store assumes, even on remote (SMB) filesystems, that only one machine will ever be accessing the directory, and so stores things like view settings and icon positions and such. Which means that every mac computer that accesses that file share will be fighting with each other, overwriting their metadata, and sometimes triggering problems because one has half-overwritten the file while another is accessing it. That metadata should have been stored locally on the mac (with info about what path it refers to), not on the remote system. Overall, it's a very poorly designed feature.

jakobegger 7y ago
But it was pretty neat that you could arrange icons on a floppy disks and then give it to someone else and the icons were in the same position on their computer.
- matt-attack 7y ago
  It’s still relevant today for external drives.
  - quux 7y ago
    Disk images, which is how a lot of mac software is distributed also use this feature.
sfoley 7y ago
My guess as to the reason they’re in the directory rather than a separate folder is so you can rename/move it without losing all your metadata.
- andreareina 7y ago
  The filesystem already keeps track of moves/renames -- I can (and have) moved the files that the App Store downloads, and it still knows where they are.

philshem 7y ago

Just seeing this post among the others activates my instinct to delete the title.

ErikAugust 7y ago

This has lead me to the idea of a “gitignore” for HN article title names.

russh 7y ago
Not a bad idea.

jimbo1qaz 7y ago

This is analogous to desktop.ini on Windows Explorer, or .directory on KDE Dolphin.

acomjean 7y ago

I thought those files were a compromise when apple went to OS_X and got rid of the old "resource fork" park of the mac OS finder system. This data was part of the file, and let the operating system know which program to open the file with (even if it didn't have a .ext). But it made it hard to interopt.. But I might be a little off. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_fork https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_fork http://mirror.informatimago.com/next/developer.apple.com/documentation/mac/MoreToolbox/MoreToolbox-11.html http://mirror.informatimago.com/next/developer.apple.com/doc...

klingonopera 7y ago

Veto'ing these files on Linux SMB servers along with ".thumb" files is one of the most satisfying things I have ever done as a network administrator. [1]: https://www.samba.org/samba/docs/current/man-html/smb.conf.5.html#VETOFILES https://www.samba.org/samba/docs/current/man-html/smb.conf.5...

klingonopera 7y ago

These temporary files are terrible! I don't know which major Windows version started with the ".thumb" and "desktop.ini" files, but if I tell my OS to navigate and display me contents of a folder, please don't change anything in that folder! You should be assuming "read-only" as often as possible, and only assume anything else when explicitly stated to do so. But instead, they create thumbnails. In the very same source folder. Shouldn't this stuff go on some cache in your windows directory?

mrguyorama 7y ago
The wikipedia links to a similar article on the windows thumbnail cache, where it claims from Vista onward that Windows has a central cache location for thumbnail caches.
- klingonopera 7y ago
  Ah yes, that explains why "thumbs.db" is no longer a thing and was mostly remnants left over from the XP days...
garaetjjte 7y ago
Another thing is that 'System Volume Information' created on removable drives. And Android too creates its directory structure on every mounted drive..

burfog 7y ago

I got data loss when OLPC's Sugar desktop did this. I put the SD card into the machine to undelete something, and Sugar promptly overwrote my data by adding some useless nonsense desktop file. For all these sorts of things, I really truly think "How dare they!" and much worse. It fills me with rage that an OS would do this.