4 ms·

I used to think like lqet, and my travel habits reflected that, traveling to obscure places (at least for an American) to "get away from the crowds." But the m

I used to think like lqet, and my travel habits reflected that, traveling to obscure places (at least for an American) to "get away from the crowds." But the more I thought about it, the less comfortable I was with that line of thinking. What IS wrong with taking a picture that isn't 100% original? Is taking a picture of Piazza San Marco just as bad as a landscape photographer getting that "perfect shot" of Antelope Canyon? or Mesa Arch? [1][2] What if you are an American with very limited vacation time each year? Or you just want an "easy" vacation? Why is one style of travel better than the other? Does a place having a ton of visitors make it worse to visit? Or is there still value to going? I'm just rambling at this point, but I'd love to hear anyone's thoughts since I'm not sure what to feel. [1] https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/0f/1b/ec/c6/crowded-conditions-in.jpg https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/0f/1b/ec/c6/... [2] https://www.johntrotto.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/IMG_2741_600px_w.jpg https://www.johntrotto.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/IMG_27...

tasssko 7y ago
Agree and scientifically we remember by remembering. A photo on my phone is enough to remember the feeling of being there. Even if it was over crowded and i ended up paying 14 euro for a espresso.
- toyg 7y ago
  14 euros for an espresso, seriously...? Man, they are taking the piss. If they did that to an Italian, there would be fisticuffs.
  - pmontra 7y ago
    Agreed. An expresso is <= 1 Euro in Italy. Cappuccino 1.50.
    - toyg 7y ago
      Yeah, you can stretch it to 2 or 2.50 in very nice places, but 14 is just fraud.
- Lucadg 7y ago
  In Florian, the oldest European cafe, you're sitting where Casanova was and you can't expect to pay 1.5 € for a Cappuccino. https://www.caffeflorian.com/en/heritage/venice-triumphantto-present.html https://www.caffeflorian.com/en/heritage/venice-triumphantto... In other places it's a rip off.
maximente 7y ago
> I used to think like lqet, and my travel habits reflected that, traveling to obscure places (at least for an American) to "get away from the crowds." that seems odd to say the least. it seems highly probable to me that popular tourist attractions are popular because they're desirable to go to. sure, there's some marketing drum up in there but there's something seriously weird about going to less desirable places solely to get away from the crowds. it's almost as if you're signaling you're somehow superior or better by doing something other people aren't doing, even if that thing is objectively worse. value signaling made manifest via tourism or something.
- 9nGQluzmnq3M 7y ago
  Famous/extremely popular sights are often less rewarding because they are so famous/popular: for example, it's highly unlikely you'll be genuinely astonished by the enigmatic smile of the Mona Lisa at the Louvre, because a) you've already seen it a million times and b) there's a jostling mob of other tourists five rows deep around it, so you can barely see the damned thing. This is why the "traveller" (vs tourist) holy grail is to find places that are genuinely impressive and spacious enough to still be enjoyable.
  - maximente 7y ago
    that's fair, but i'm thinking more things like machu picchu which, while uber popular, are probably pretty hard to find in less amazing versions. so yeah, while certainly only limited to a few places, i think there's a class of spots that one cannot necessarily reproduce in a lite version. so especially if one has limited travel opportunities, i think they're worth going to. venice is probably one of those although admittedly i haven't been.
    - Celexior 7y ago
      La Ciudad Perdida, a not inca-version (for the amazing part I am not sure about that).
- robryan 7y ago
scythe 7y ago
I don't really think I understand the question. I usually make an effort on trips to avoid crowds. Why? Because I want to. It's not better. I don't like crowds. I also drink coffee without milk. I drink matcha with milk. I wear a garish array of brightly-colored button-down shirts. I cross my z's when writing. None of these choices is correct. They are my choices. No version of tourism is wrong unless it's contributing to a documented problem in which case it's obviously wrong. Tourism is recreation, no matter how eagerly it pretends to be education.
tomcam 7y ago
Well, since you asked... My thoughts are, feel what you feel. Nothing wrong with any feelings. It’s what you do with them that counts. And there’s absolutely nothing wrong with taking the same picture other people took. If you liked it, you like it. You’re not harming anyone by taking a damn picture. Obviously as a tourist I try to be respectful and to learn a subset of the language while I’m there. But hey, if you only have a week off there’s nothing wrong with going to the same place in Antelope Canyon as others went. It’s popular for a reason!
richk449 7y ago
> I'd love to hear anyone's thoughts since I'm not sure what to feel Do whatever makes you happy.

tasssko 7y ago

Agree and scientifically we remember by remembering. A photo on my phone is enough to remember the feeling of being there. Even if it was over crowded and i ended up paying 14 euro for a espresso.

toyg 7y ago
14 euros for an espresso, seriously...? Man, they are taking the piss. If they did that to an Italian, there would be fisticuffs.
- pmontra 7y ago
  Agreed. An expresso is <= 1 Euro in Italy. Cappuccino 1.50.
  - toyg 7y ago
    Yeah, you can stretch it to 2 or 2.50 in very nice places, but 14 is just fraud.
Lucadg 7y ago
In Florian, the oldest European cafe, you're sitting where Casanova was and you can't expect to pay 1.5 € for a Cappuccino. https://www.caffeflorian.com/en/heritage/venice-triumphantto-present.html https://www.caffeflorian.com/en/heritage/venice-triumphantto... In other places it's a rip off.

maximente 7y ago

> I used to think like lqet, and my travel habits reflected that, traveling to obscure places (at least for an American) to "get away from the crowds." that seems odd to say the least. it seems highly probable to me that popular tourist attractions are popular because they're desirable to go to. sure, there's some marketing drum up in there but there's something seriously weird about going to less desirable places solely to get away from the crowds. it's almost as if you're signaling you're somehow superior or better by doing something other people aren't doing, even if that thing is objectively worse. value signaling made manifest via tourism or something.

9nGQluzmnq3M 7y ago
Famous/extremely popular sights are often less rewarding because they are so famous/popular: for example, it's highly unlikely you'll be genuinely astonished by the enigmatic smile of the Mona Lisa at the Louvre, because a) you've already seen it a million times and b) there's a jostling mob of other tourists five rows deep around it, so you can barely see the damned thing. This is why the "traveller" (vs tourist) holy grail is to find places that are genuinely impressive and spacious enough to still be enjoyable.
- maximente 7y ago
  that's fair, but i'm thinking more things like machu picchu which, while uber popular, are probably pretty hard to find in less amazing versions. so yeah, while certainly only limited to a few places, i think there's a class of spots that one cannot necessarily reproduce in a lite version. so especially if one has limited travel opportunities, i think they're worth going to. venice is probably one of those although admittedly i haven't been.
  - Celexior 7y ago
    La Ciudad Perdida, a not inca-version (for the amazing part I am not sure about that).
robryan 7y ago

scythe 7y ago

I don't really think I understand the question. I usually make an effort on trips to avoid crowds. Why? Because I want to. It's not better. I don't like crowds. I also drink coffee without milk. I drink matcha with milk. I wear a garish array of brightly-colored button-down shirts. I cross my z's when writing. None of these choices is correct. They are my choices. No version of tourism is wrong unless it's contributing to a documented problem in which case it's obviously wrong. Tourism is recreation, no matter how eagerly it pretends to be education.

tomcam 7y ago

Well, since you asked... My thoughts are, feel what you feel. Nothing wrong with any feelings. It’s what you do with them that counts. And there’s absolutely nothing wrong with taking the same picture other people took. If you liked it, you like it. You’re not harming anyone by taking a damn picture. Obviously as a tourist I try to be respectful and to learn a subset of the language while I’m there. But hey, if you only have a week off there’s nothing wrong with going to the same place in Antelope Canyon as others went. It’s popular for a reason!

richk449 7y ago

> I'd love to hear anyone's thoughts since I'm not sure what to feel Do whatever makes you happy.