6 ms·

India's First CPUs Are Ready for App Development

226 points by sbmthakur 7y ago

williesleg 7y ago
Well fuck, it's time to do the needful!
Iv 7y ago
I am surprised this is not a bigger news. This project is open hardware and open source. It may be 180 nm tech, it is still nice to see open hardware being released. Now I could not find anywhere to buy this processor. Anyone knows about it?
- slang800 7y ago
  It's not commercially available yet.
- p1necone 7y ago
  180 or 18?
  - dikei 7y ago
    They have 2 prototype: 1 using 22nm, and 1 using 180nm https://shakti.org.in/tapeouts.html https://shakti.org.in/tapeouts.html
  - duncan-donuts 7y ago
    Based on this article[0] it sounds like there are C class chips made by intel at 22nm and they made some in India at 180nm. I couldn’t find the specs anywhere else, so idk. http://gareebscientist.com/shakti-processor-vs-intel-vs-arm/ http://gareebscientist.com/shakti-processor-vs-intel-vs-arm/
lifeisstillgood 7y ago
This is big news - open hardware backed by a major global power is going to have a real affect - and the fabs don't have to be the 10nm billion dollar versions. If the indian government can start using some muscle here - all government IOT devices must use this processor and this software stack and you can see a global standard emerge from the open standards. I think I might be dreaming too much
- _emacsomancer_ 7y ago
  The S class and H class sound interesting, perhaps that they could be used in a desktop/laptop. Earlier discussions of Shakti Processors seemed to suggest that it was all embedded devices.
- slang800 7y ago
  > all government IOT devices must use this processor and this software stack and you can see a global standard emerge from the open standards Why would India-specific anti-competitive restrictions result in other countries around the world adopting this processor as a standard? Also, this isn't the first open CPU project. It's based on the RISC-V architecture and there are other RISC-V processors that you can buy today from companies like https://www.sifive.com/ https://www.sifive.com/.
  - StudentStuff 7y ago
    Brazil tried this tariff tactic, which resulted in some middling performance knockoffs. China also has some tariffs (hence the tariff bypass AMD recently did with the JV that rebranded 3 year old Zen for the Chinese market). In terms of building up internal silicon design talent, tariffs have not been effective in other large countries. Allwinner and Mediatek are taking off the shelf designs from ARM, getting them fabbed, and writing basic BSPs for them. The only magic here is they generally do not care to have large firmware blobs, so their hardware isn't too terrible to mainline.
    - simula67 7y ago
      I would assume that the tariffs would be a temporary measure. At the moment, there is no semiconductor industry in India to speak of and allowing foreign businesses in would mean that Indian companies would not have a fighting chance. If the industry takes off, I think the tariffs would be removed and the Indian companies would be forced to compete or sell themselves.
      - benj111 7y ago
Proven 7y ago
Non-news... Thankfully they aren't going to force state owned companies and indirectly citiEns to buy this CPU (cough, China, cough), so it's going to sell (or not) on its own merits, which means people who want to get stuff done effectively will buy better or cheaper proprietary products.
jrockway 7y ago
Good luck to them. A completely open system is my dream. I am looking forward to when the datasheets from $VENDOR are the same for every customer, rather than edited whenever you call in and say "wait, didn't you say XX does YY?" "Oh yeah, it can do that... let me send you a new totally accurate datasheet that you won't spend 3 months debugging for us."
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
  I too would like to see completely open hardware at some point. Really open, none of this "it's totally, except for the closed GPU and binary blobs that is..." crap.
  - pjc50 7y ago
    How much more are you prepared to pay for that, though?
    - snaky 7y ago
      Do we pay more for Linux than for Windows?
      - dikei 7y ago
        Well, Purism's Librem laptops are way more expensive than a similarly spec Windows laptop.
      - pjc50 7y ago
        The economics is completely different though, because hardware has substantial non-recurring costs associated with it. So large batches will always be much cheaper than individual distribution. The cost of trying things is huge too, making little room for amateurs.
mepian 7y ago
I browsed the SHAKTI repository briefly and found only the E and C cores, are the rest of the cores not open source? Did I miss them?
- quantummkv 7y ago
  They are still under development
pdevr 7y ago
Seems easy enough to set up the SDK: https://gitlab.com/shaktiproject/software/shakti-sdk/blob/master/sdk_info.md https://gitlab.com/shaktiproject/software/shakti-sdk/blob/ma...
peter_beck 7y ago
Pity it is implemented in Bluespec Verilog for which the only viable toolchain is still closed source software. Some unsupported since 2013 toy compilers exist. Looks like the company behind the Bluespec pivoted to RISC-V implementation. Bluespec HDL has seen its limelight in 2012 and died due to it being closed source with pricing similarly excessive as other HDL tools. I remember being excited about the possibilities of a new, paradigm shifting HDL. Sadly, now it is a fizzled remainder of how to run the good tech into the ground by keeping it closed.
- snaky 7y ago
  > Fe-Si is a simplified version of Bluespec, an HDL based on a notion of guarded atomic actions. Fe-Si is defined as a dependently typed deep embedding in Coq. The target language of the compiler corresponds to a synthesisable subset of Verilog or VHDL. A key aspect of our approach is that input programs to the compiler can be defined and proved correct inside Coq. Then, we use extraction and a Verilog back-end (written in OCaml) to get a certified version of a hardware design. http://adam.chlipala.net/papers/FesiCAV13/ http://adam.chlipala.net/papers/FesiCAV13/ https://github.com/braibant/Synthesis https://github.com/braibant/Synthesis
- 0815test 7y ago
  > I remember being excited about the possibilities of a new, paradigm shifting HDL. 2012 was a long time ago. There are plenty of RISC-V core implementations using Chisel and other "paradigm shifting" HDL tools.
  - snaky 7y ago
    Lava, Esterel, what else?
jabl 7y ago
At some point they didn't have the C extension, making them unable to run software compiled for "GC", which is the baseline targeted by most Linux distros. Has this been fixed yet?
spraveenitpro 7y ago
Where the Hell are the toilets?

226 points by sbmthakur 7y ago

Well fuck, it's time to do the needful!

Iv 7y ago

I am surprised this is not a bigger news. This project is open hardware and open source. It may be 180 nm tech, it is still nice to see open hardware being released. Now I could not find anywhere to buy this processor. Anyone knows about it?

slang800 7y ago
It's not commercially available yet.
p1necone 7y ago
180 or 18?
- dikei 7y ago
  They have 2 prototype: 1 using 22nm, and 1 using 180nm https://shakti.org.in/tapeouts.html https://shakti.org.in/tapeouts.html
- duncan-donuts 7y ago
  Based on this article[0] it sounds like there are C class chips made by intel at 22nm and they made some in India at 180nm. I couldn’t find the specs anywhere else, so idk. http://gareebscientist.com/shakti-processor-vs-intel-vs-arm/ http://gareebscientist.com/shakti-processor-vs-intel-vs-arm/

lifeisstillgood 7y ago

This is big news - open hardware backed by a major global power is going to have a real affect - and the fabs don't have to be the 10nm billion dollar versions. If the indian government can start using some muscle here - all government IOT devices must use this processor and this software stack and you can see a global standard emerge from the open standards. I think I might be dreaming too much

_emacsomancer_ 7y ago
The S class and H class sound interesting, perhaps that they could be used in a desktop/laptop. Earlier discussions of Shakti Processors seemed to suggest that it was all embedded devices.
slang800 7y ago
> all government IOT devices must use this processor and this software stack and you can see a global standard emerge from the open standards Why would India-specific anti-competitive restrictions result in other countries around the world adopting this processor as a standard? Also, this isn't the first open CPU project. It's based on the RISC-V architecture and there are other RISC-V processors that you can buy today from companies like https://www.sifive.com/ https://www.sifive.com/.
- StudentStuff 7y ago
  Brazil tried this tariff tactic, which resulted in some middling performance knockoffs. China also has some tariffs (hence the tariff bypass AMD recently did with the JV that rebranded 3 year old Zen for the Chinese market). In terms of building up internal silicon design talent, tariffs have not been effective in other large countries. Allwinner and Mediatek are taking off the shelf designs from ARM, getting them fabbed, and writing basic BSPs for them. The only magic here is they generally do not care to have large firmware blobs, so their hardware isn't too terrible to mainline.
  - simula67 7y ago
    I would assume that the tariffs would be a temporary measure. At the moment, there is no semiconductor industry in India to speak of and allowing foreign businesses in would mean that Indian companies would not have a fighting chance. If the industry takes off, I think the tariffs would be removed and the Indian companies would be forced to compete or sell themselves.
    - benj111 7y ago

Proven 7y ago

Non-news... Thankfully they aren't going to force state owned companies and indirectly citiEns to buy this CPU (cough, China, cough), so it's going to sell (or not) on its own merits, which means people who want to get stuff done effectively will buy better or cheaper proprietary products.

jrockway 7y ago

Good luck to them. A completely open system is my dream. I am looking forward to when the datasheets from $VENDOR are the same for every customer, rather than edited whenever you call in and say "wait, didn't you say XX does YY?" "Oh yeah, it can do that... let me send you a new totally accurate datasheet that you won't spend 3 months debugging for us."

AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
I too would like to see completely open hardware at some point. Really open, none of this "it's totally, except for the closed GPU and binary blobs that is..." crap.
- pjc50 7y ago
  How much more are you prepared to pay for that, though?
  - snaky 7y ago
    Do we pay more for Linux than for Windows?
    - dikei 7y ago
      Well, Purism's Librem laptops are way more expensive than a similarly spec Windows laptop.
    - pjc50 7y ago
      The economics is completely different though, because hardware has substantial non-recurring costs associated with it. So large batches will always be much cheaper than individual distribution. The cost of trying things is huge too, making little room for amateurs.

mepian 7y ago

I browsed the SHAKTI repository briefly and found only the E and C cores, are the rest of the cores not open source? Did I miss them?

quantummkv 7y ago
They are still under development

pdevr 7y ago

Seems easy enough to set up the SDK: https://gitlab.com/shaktiproject/software/shakti-sdk/blob/master/sdk_info.md https://gitlab.com/shaktiproject/software/shakti-sdk/blob/ma...

peter_beck 7y ago

Pity it is implemented in Bluespec Verilog for which the only viable toolchain is still closed source software. Some unsupported since 2013 toy compilers exist. Looks like the company behind the Bluespec pivoted to RISC-V implementation. Bluespec HDL has seen its limelight in 2012 and died due to it being closed source with pricing similarly excessive as other HDL tools. I remember being excited about the possibilities of a new, paradigm shifting HDL. Sadly, now it is a fizzled remainder of how to run the good tech into the ground by keeping it closed.

snaky 7y ago
> Fe-Si is a simplified version of Bluespec, an HDL based on a notion of guarded atomic actions. Fe-Si is defined as a dependently typed deep embedding in Coq. The target language of the compiler corresponds to a synthesisable subset of Verilog or VHDL. A key aspect of our approach is that input programs to the compiler can be defined and proved correct inside Coq. Then, we use extraction and a Verilog back-end (written in OCaml) to get a certified version of a hardware design. http://adam.chlipala.net/papers/FesiCAV13/ http://adam.chlipala.net/papers/FesiCAV13/ https://github.com/braibant/Synthesis https://github.com/braibant/Synthesis
0815test 7y ago
> I remember being excited about the possibilities of a new, paradigm shifting HDL. 2012 was a long time ago. There are plenty of RISC-V core implementations using Chisel and other "paradigm shifting" HDL tools.
- snaky 7y ago
  Lava, Esterel, what else?

jabl 7y ago

At some point they didn't have the C extension, making them unable to run software compiled for "GC", which is the baseline targeted by most Linux distros. Has this been fixed yet?

spraveenitpro 7y ago

Where the Hell are the toilets?