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I can't help but feel the amateur radio community could have used a rebrand for the internet age. I understand there's a lot of history but it's hard to get you

I can't help but feel the amateur radio community could have used a rebrand for the internet age. I understand there's a lot of history but it's hard to get young people interested in being _hams_, a word that has not aged well. I got my licence about a decade back and really loved the technical pieces - learning about how radio waves worked, propagation with different bands, the ability to (try) to build your own modem with two radios and an Arduino, but when it came to actually talking to people on the radio... other people just wanted to talk about radios. It is really fascinating what you can do with 2m band radios. For those times and places where your cell phone won't work, digital modes on the new Icom radios look pretty cool. Being able to hook up a radio to a laptop to send something digitally still seems valuable and relevant! But the community branding could use some modernization to push those use cases.

Mediterraneo10 7y ago
> other people just wanted to talk about radios. I felt the same disappointment when I got into amateur radio just before the modern internet took off. I loved the idea of talking with people around the world and maybe even practicing some foreign languages, so I immediately set up a station for DXing. All those people from exotic foreign countries just wanted to make a few quick remarks about their radios. No one wanted to exchange any actual culture. But to be fair, the wording of amateur radio regulations in many countries suggests that hams should not try to have substantial conversations over the airwaves. Also, since amateur radio is hobby dominated by older people, a lot of hams in Eastern Europe still remember the Communist era when contact with foreigners was supposed to be strictly business.
- madengr 7y ago
  Well at least with SSB and CW you have a short conversation. JT8, etc, have reduced “contacts” to a few bytes. Don’t get me wrong, pushing the Shannon capacity limit is great, but I’ll wager many stations are not even running QRP for the newer digital modes.
  - lawfulcactus 7y ago
    >JT8, etc, have reduced "contacts" to a few bytes I think you mixed up FT8 and JS8 there. :) FT8 is the (effectively) zero-interaction DX mode. JS8 exactly the opposite-- a weak signal mode based on FT8 tailored for ragchewing.
    - madengr 7y ago
      Ha ha, I guess the modes in WSJT-X. I know JT65 is one. At least with PSK31 you are typing in real-time. With JT65 it’s fully automated. Ought to only be counted as a contact when it’s below the 2.5 kHz noise bandwidth. When I can hear multiple JT65 signals in SSB audio, that’s totally cheating. Those guys are probably running +10W.
- jpmattia 7y ago
  > But to be fair, the wording of amateur radio regulations in many countries suggests that hams should not try to have substantial conversations over the airwaves. But it's worth noting: A lot of that verbiage dates from the Cold War, and is rooted in the spy communications culture that leftover from WW2. It's pretty doubtful that any intelligence service gives a damn about what goes over the air these days. In fact, it would be a bonus for your adversary's old-fashioned "listening posts", because they could "intercept" the broadcast. So an ITU update to what is allowed to go out over the air would also be sensible. Edit: Although you just know encrypted packets would be forbidden, despite the fact that we can easily send encrypted packets via the internet, which requires a great deal more work to "intercept".
- Stratoscope 7y ago
  What has worked well for me is to ask questions about non-controversial topics that most people are interested in. A great one is food. I've often told people in other countries (or even here in the US) that I would like to visit their area sometime, and what are some local foods I should try? This has started some pretty interesting conversations, because who doesn't like food and talking about it? And it shows that I'm interested in their local culture.
zippergz 7y ago
I agree. I have my license, but I never really use it. However, I greatly value the things I learned in the process of getting my license. Understanding how RF works is really helpful for making WiFi work better, for example.
hanoz 7y ago
In my opinion one of the best ways of injecting some new life into the community would be to let people take their test online.
- melling 7y ago
  He gave you the answer and you ignored it. Instead you reverted to the classic: "Let's make taking the test easier for people". I got my license 2 decades ago and never really use it. How about those modern use cases?
- Jach 7y ago
  Two better ways: remove the need for a test or license at all, at least at many more frequencies and below energy levels well above current limits (which say you can transmit around 2.4 Ghz for example up to some power license-free). Second is to remove any restrictions on what is transmitted, which lets you have purely digital frequency modulated end-to-end encrypted signals meant for amateur computers to decipher. But making the test online sounds a lot more feasible a change. I'm just skeptical of its effects. e.g. It wouldn't have made me any likelier to pursue amateur radar fun further.
  - tlrobinson 7y ago
    As much as I'd love to have more people in amateur radio, and the ability to use encryption, I think both the licensing and prohibition on encryption are fairly critical to keeping things running smoothly. The test includes lots of useful information such as requirements to transmit your callsign and using minimum power necessary. The prohibition on encryption is pretty critical to enforce other rules such as only using it for non-commercial purposes. Encryption isn't actually necessary for any of the stated purposes of amateur radio (experimentation, recreation, training, contesting, emergency comms, etc). You can still use any digital mode, including digital signatures, but not encryption of the content. I might be in favor of creating a class lower than Technician, and allowing taking the test online, though. You should still be assigned a callsign that you are required to transmit.
    - 7y ago
throwayEngineer 7y ago
Where do you not have cellular reception? Even our secret vacation spot has 4g now. I understand that without cellular, there is value, but is there any value with internet?
tlrobinson 7y ago
I think the rebranding is happening slowly. There are really two amateur radio "communities" (though with a fair amount of overlap): the older "ragchewing" generations that didn't grow up with the Internet, and the newer generations that care more about experimenting with shiny new technology. As the former generation "retires" and new licensees join it will continue to shift. There have been a record number of new licenses granted in recent years (though that doesn't necessarily translate to actual engagement in the hobby) http://www.arrl.org/news/another-outstanding-year-for-amateur-radio-licensing http://www.arrl.org/news/another-outstanding-year-for-amateu...
vageli 7y ago
> I can't help but feel the amateur radio community could have used a rebrand for the internet age. I understand there's a lot of history but it's hard to get young people interested in being _hams_, a word that has not aged well. I got my licence about a decade back and really loved the technical pieces - learning about how radio waves worked, propagation with different bands, the ability to (try) to build your own modem with two radios and an Arduino, but when it came to actually talking to people on the radio... other people just wanted to talk about radios. > It is really fascinating what you can do with 2m band radios. For those times and places where your cell phone won't work, digital modes on the new Icom radios look pretty cool. Being able to hook up a radio to a laptop to send something digitally still seems valuable and relevant! But the community branding could use some modernization to push those use cases. Packet radio is awesome. Long distance, communication unmediated by third parties is awesome. Building gateways for sms/email is possible. I pointed an antenna at a satellite in the sky and received data. If I got to touch this stuff as a kid it would have blown my world apart. There is so much possibility, if people think ham radio is just old white dudes talking about radios they are not digging deeply enough.
- Jach 7y ago
  The potential is obvious once you really start to grasp the reality of the electric field and its properties. (A favorite Feynman vid to give laymen a taste: https://youtube.com/watch?v=FjHJ7FmV0M4 https://youtube.com/watch?v=FjHJ7FmV0M4) I don't see how any worthwhile possibilities can be realized at the amateur level however given just two of the restrictions I pointed out in a sibling thread...

Mediterraneo10 7y ago

> other people just wanted to talk about radios. I felt the same disappointment when I got into amateur radio just before the modern internet took off. I loved the idea of talking with people around the world and maybe even practicing some foreign languages, so I immediately set up a station for DXing. All those people from exotic foreign countries just wanted to make a few quick remarks about their radios. No one wanted to exchange any actual culture. But to be fair, the wording of amateur radio regulations in many countries suggests that hams should not try to have substantial conversations over the airwaves. Also, since amateur radio is hobby dominated by older people, a lot of hams in Eastern Europe still remember the Communist era when contact with foreigners was supposed to be strictly business.

madengr 7y ago
Well at least with SSB and CW you have a short conversation. JT8, etc, have reduced “contacts” to a few bytes. Don’t get me wrong, pushing the Shannon capacity limit is great, but I’ll wager many stations are not even running QRP for the newer digital modes.
- lawfulcactus 7y ago
  >JT8, etc, have reduced "contacts" to a few bytes I think you mixed up FT8 and JS8 there. :) FT8 is the (effectively) zero-interaction DX mode. JS8 exactly the opposite-- a weak signal mode based on FT8 tailored for ragchewing.
  - madengr 7y ago
    Ha ha, I guess the modes in WSJT-X. I know JT65 is one. At least with PSK31 you are typing in real-time. With JT65 it’s fully automated. Ought to only be counted as a contact when it’s below the 2.5 kHz noise bandwidth. When I can hear multiple JT65 signals in SSB audio, that’s totally cheating. Those guys are probably running +10W.
jpmattia 7y ago
> But to be fair, the wording of amateur radio regulations in many countries suggests that hams should not try to have substantial conversations over the airwaves. But it's worth noting: A lot of that verbiage dates from the Cold War, and is rooted in the spy communications culture that leftover from WW2. It's pretty doubtful that any intelligence service gives a damn about what goes over the air these days. In fact, it would be a bonus for your adversary's old-fashioned "listening posts", because they could "intercept" the broadcast. So an ITU update to what is allowed to go out over the air would also be sensible. Edit: Although you just know encrypted packets would be forbidden, despite the fact that we can easily send encrypted packets via the internet, which requires a great deal more work to "intercept".
Stratoscope 7y ago
What has worked well for me is to ask questions about non-controversial topics that most people are interested in. A great one is food. I've often told people in other countries (or even here in the US) that I would like to visit their area sometime, and what are some local foods I should try? This has started some pretty interesting conversations, because who doesn't like food and talking about it? And it shows that I'm interested in their local culture.

zippergz 7y ago

I agree. I have my license, but I never really use it. However, I greatly value the things I learned in the process of getting my license. Understanding how RF works is really helpful for making WiFi work better, for example.

hanoz 7y ago

In my opinion one of the best ways of injecting some new life into the community would be to let people take their test online.

melling 7y ago
He gave you the answer and you ignored it. Instead you reverted to the classic: "Let's make taking the test easier for people". I got my license 2 decades ago and never really use it. How about those modern use cases?
Jach 7y ago
Two better ways: remove the need for a test or license at all, at least at many more frequencies and below energy levels well above current limits (which say you can transmit around 2.4 Ghz for example up to some power license-free). Second is to remove any restrictions on what is transmitted, which lets you have purely digital frequency modulated end-to-end encrypted signals meant for amateur computers to decipher. But making the test online sounds a lot more feasible a change. I'm just skeptical of its effects. e.g. It wouldn't have made me any likelier to pursue amateur radar fun further.
- tlrobinson 7y ago
  As much as I'd love to have more people in amateur radio, and the ability to use encryption, I think both the licensing and prohibition on encryption are fairly critical to keeping things running smoothly. The test includes lots of useful information such as requirements to transmit your callsign and using minimum power necessary. The prohibition on encryption is pretty critical to enforce other rules such as only using it for non-commercial purposes. Encryption isn't actually necessary for any of the stated purposes of amateur radio (experimentation, recreation, training, contesting, emergency comms, etc). You can still use any digital mode, including digital signatures, but not encryption of the content. I might be in favor of creating a class lower than Technician, and allowing taking the test online, though. You should still be assigned a callsign that you are required to transmit.
  - 7y ago

throwayEngineer 7y ago

Where do you not have cellular reception? Even our secret vacation spot has 4g now. I understand that without cellular, there is value, but is there any value with internet?

tlrobinson 7y ago

I think the rebranding is happening slowly. There are really two amateur radio "communities" (though with a fair amount of overlap): the older "ragchewing" generations that didn't grow up with the Internet, and the newer generations that care more about experimenting with shiny new technology. As the former generation "retires" and new licensees join it will continue to shift. There have been a record number of new licenses granted in recent years (though that doesn't necessarily translate to actual engagement in the hobby) http://www.arrl.org/news/another-outstanding-year-for-amateur-radio-licensing http://www.arrl.org/news/another-outstanding-year-for-amateu...

vageli 7y ago

> I can't help but feel the amateur radio community could have used a rebrand for the internet age. I understand there's a lot of history but it's hard to get young people interested in being _hams_, a word that has not aged well. I got my licence about a decade back and really loved the technical pieces - learning about how radio waves worked, propagation with different bands, the ability to (try) to build your own modem with two radios and an Arduino, but when it came to actually talking to people on the radio... other people just wanted to talk about radios. > It is really fascinating what you can do with 2m band radios. For those times and places where your cell phone won't work, digital modes on the new Icom radios look pretty cool. Being able to hook up a radio to a laptop to send something digitally still seems valuable and relevant! But the community branding could use some modernization to push those use cases. Packet radio is awesome. Long distance, communication unmediated by third parties is awesome. Building gateways for sms/email is possible. I pointed an antenna at a satellite in the sky and received data. If I got to touch this stuff as a kid it would have blown my world apart. There is so much possibility, if people think ham radio is just old white dudes talking about radios they are not digging deeply enough.

Jach 7y ago
The potential is obvious once you really start to grasp the reality of the electric field and its properties. (A favorite Feynman vid to give laymen a taste: https://youtube.com/watch?v=FjHJ7FmV0M4 https://youtube.com/watch?v=FjHJ7FmV0M4) I don't see how any worthwhile possibilities can be realized at the amateur level however given just two of the restrictions I pointed out in a sibling thread...