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as an aside, I got my ham radio licence because of my interest in long distance microwave mesh networking. there is a group called aredn http://www.arednmesh.or
by rsuelzer 7y ago
as an aside, I got my ham radio licence because of my interest in long distance microwave mesh networking. there is a group called aredn http://www.arednmesh.org http://www.arednmesh.org which uses wifi devices modified to run in the Amateur portions of 2ghz and 5ghz to create massive mesh networks. The lack of noise on our allocations means we can make really long connections. I personally have a 50 dollar Microtik dish that makes a 25 mile connection to a backbone node and get about 25mbps. If there are any HAMs that are reading this, or you want to become a HAM it's a fun project that blends computers and radio.
- arwineap 7y agoI seem to remember some issues around running anything encrypted on frequencies meant for the public, but I've always been interesting in citizen mesh networking. Is it legal, or just not enforced?
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- Karunamon 7y agoAt least in the US, encryption of any kind on amateur bands is prohibited. Hams tend to be really good at self-policing, so if a curious person horns in on your traffic and discovers that it's encrypted, you can expect a knock on your door, if you're lucky from the guy that looked up your license from the public database (you're required to transmit your callsign at regular intervals) to ask you to fix it, if you're unlucky, from an FCC enforcement guy in a suit.
- dmix 7y agoSo if you can't run any modern internet what would you use the mesh network for? Some of Google's traffic charts show up to 90% of traffic is TLS in the US for Chrome users.
- rsuelzer 7y agoIt's an intranet. Sort of a backup internet that would allow for data to be sent at a much higher rate than just voice. Here is the map in So Cal of the active nodes. https://mapping.kg6wxc.net/meshmap/map_display.php#8/33.970/-118.200 https://mapping.kg6wxc.net/meshmap/map_display.php#8/33.970/... Also, in emergency situations regular FCC rules are suspended so encryption is not a problem. We actually used this mesh to provide internet to hams working emergency communications in a fire zone after their internet lines were burned out.
- dmix 7y agoThat's way bigger than I thought it would be. Neat. Also good point about emergencies and backups.
- logfromblammo 7y agoYou would use it to talk to other amateur radio operators about amateur radio operating and amateur radio equipment, obviously. The prohibition on encrypted content is a deal-breaker for me, and a lot of other people, who might otherwise want to experiment with connecting to the Internet from difficult locations. But since the Internet runs on encrypted protocols now, using unencrypted amateur radio transmissions potentially means eavesdroppers and man-in-the-middle attacks, so you can't do anything sensitive or personal, or even anything requiring login credentials. And since hams are very likely to narc, snitch, or grass on you to defend the sanctity and integrity of their hobby, you can't do anything interesting or unusual for long before someone finds a rule that forbids whatever it is you were doing and forces you to stop.
- justin66 7y ago> And since hams are very likely to narc, snitch, or grass You forgot rats and stool pigeons. It really detracted from the extremely important point you were making.
- logfromblammo 7y ago
- rsuelzer 7y agoCorrect, although there are a group of us looking to change this rule and the FCC seems receptive. It is the AARL that is a bit slow on this issue. The original rules were drafted during the cold war, so times have changed. More importantly, we believe it is possible to not hide the intent and recepient of a message, while still protecting sensitive content using open source encryption methods. There are cases that encryption is necessary to maintaining the integrity of emergency infrastructure. For example, remotely logging into a Mesh Node to change the operating frequencies, or sending HIPPA information. If someone wanted to monitor RF packets they could see that I am logging into my administration console, but they don't really need to see the password. But, until the FCC issues clear guidance on encryption on the microwave frequencies we do our best to disable it, although there are some emergency services that are literally only available over https, so some hams have decided to forge ahead in the hopes of forcing a rule change.
- brians 7y agoI don’t see how encryption is required there. Strong cryptographic authentication, yes—but that could be as easy as an HMAC with a key shared offline. The HIPAA information is a great example of what should be kept off the amateur bands, except in an emergency when forgoing encryption is appropriate.
- Karunamon 7y ago>If someone wanted to monitor RF packets they could see that I am logging into my administration console, but they don't really need to see the password. Interesting note.. some regular analog repeaters do something similar to this. If someone needs to make a settings change, they're managed via DTMF (dialpad) sounds. Normally the repeater would relay everything, but it can detect the DTMFs and just replace them with beeps or silence before rebroadcasting.
- xxpor 7y agoThere's something similar in the Seattle/Victoria area. https://hamwan.org/ https://hamwan.org/ It's really fun to play with. It's not strictly a mesh, but that's OK. It's used heavily for EMCOMM as well as internet linking repeater sites on the tops of mountains where there's no other internet.
- rsuelzer 7y agoAnother great project, although I don't think they have modified their firmware to run outside of the Part 15 wifi bands, so they have to deal with noise... Could be wrong though. :)
- tlrobinson 7y agoIf anyone is interested in setting up one of these in San Francisco I've got a line of sight to much of downtown and maybe East Bay.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]