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You're right that it's more options, but it's also one more box a "competent JS dev" is expected to tick. One of the best and worst things about the JS ecosyst

by bin0 7y ago

You're right that it's more options, but it's also one more box a "competent JS dev" is expected to tick. One of the best and worst things about the JS ecosystem is the plethora of choices available. On compilation, nope. Riot.js did it first, and this is literally the entire premise of typescript (I know typescript is a different language, but I see little difference here as it can mix with JS between writing only some stuff in TS). You're right, they probably should have done it, and I'm excited to see it. But I also don't see why they couldn't have submitted a PR to react/angular/ember/meteor/vue.

rich_harris 7y ago
> But I also don't see why they couldn't have submitted a PR to react/angular/ember/meteor/vue. I see this sentiment a lot in open source. When I made Rollup — which is now used to build the most popular libraries in the JavaScript ecosystem, including some you just mentioned! — people asked why I didn't just submit a PR to webpack? I understand why people ask that. But it just doesn't work like that. Very often, to take a step forward, you can't simply make incremental changes to an existing project — you need to create new foundations altogether. When Svelte 1 came out in 2016 I was already responsible for a different framework (Ractive), and it wasn't possible to make the changes I wanted there. If you can't do what you need to do by making a PR to your own project, then imagining that you can do it in a PR to someone else's is a fantasy. And it's not simply about adding some extra compiler smarts to existing frameworks. The whole point of Svelte 3 is to rethink the developer experience. It has radical opinions about how we should be building apps, which I've written about in https://svelte.dev/blog/svelte-3-rethinking-reactivity https://svelte.dev/blog/svelte-3-rethinking-reactivity and https://svelte.dev/blog/write-less-code https://svelte.dev/blog/write-less-code.
- CharlesW 7y ago
  It's a shame that the site's down. Until then, you can (and I heartily recommend doing so) watch the "Rethinking reactivity" video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdNJ3fydeao https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdNJ3fydeao
  - mgomez 7y ago
    You do realize that you replied to the very same person that's presenting in that video, right? :)
- ofrzeta 7y ago
  FWIW I did a project with Ractive before React became popular, and I liked it. I guess for many problems it would still be enough if only it were more popular.
gridlockd 7y ago
> You're right that it's more options, but it's also one more box a "competent JS dev" is expected to tick. Is that really true? React and/or Angular is something I would expect. If one uses anything more exotic then one should have a "they'll figure it out on the job" attitude. > But I also don't see why they couldn't have submitted a PR to react/angular/ember/meteor/vue. Do you honestly believe one can just leave a "here's a full static compiler for X" at the doorstep of these projects with some expectation of it actually being accepted? That would basically be an entirely separate program to be maintained alongside the runtime and any design considerations on either side will affect the other side.

by bin0 7y ago

rich_harris 7y ago

> But I also don't see why they couldn't have submitted a PR to react/angular/ember/meteor/vue. I see this sentiment a lot in open source. When I made Rollup — which is now used to build the most popular libraries in the JavaScript ecosystem, including some you just mentioned! — people asked why I didn't just submit a PR to webpack? I understand why people ask that. But it just doesn't work like that. Very often, to take a step forward, you can't simply make incremental changes to an existing project — you need to create new foundations altogether. When Svelte 1 came out in 2016 I was already responsible for a different framework (Ractive), and it wasn't possible to make the changes I wanted there. If you can't do what you need to do by making a PR to your own project, then imagining that you can do it in a PR to someone else's is a fantasy. And it's not simply about adding some extra compiler smarts to existing frameworks. The whole point of Svelte 3 is to rethink the developer experience. It has radical opinions about how we should be building apps, which I've written about in https://svelte.dev/blog/svelte-3-rethinking-reactivity https://svelte.dev/blog/svelte-3-rethinking-reactivity and https://svelte.dev/blog/write-less-code https://svelte.dev/blog/write-less-code.

CharlesW 7y ago
It's a shame that the site's down. Until then, you can (and I heartily recommend doing so) watch the "Rethinking reactivity" video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdNJ3fydeao https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdNJ3fydeao
- mgomez 7y ago
  You do realize that you replied to the very same person that's presenting in that video, right? :)
ofrzeta 7y ago
FWIW I did a project with Ractive before React became popular, and I liked it. I guess for many problems it would still be enough if only it were more popular.

gridlockd 7y ago

> You're right that it's more options, but it's also one more box a "competent JS dev" is expected to tick. Is that really true? React and/or Angular is something I would expect. If one uses anything more exotic then one should have a "they'll figure it out on the job" attitude. > But I also don't see why they couldn't have submitted a PR to react/angular/ember/meteor/vue. Do you honestly believe one can just leave a "here's a full static compiler for X" at the doorstep of these projects with some expectation of it actually being accepted? That would basically be an entirely separate program to be maintained alongside the runtime and any design considerations on either side will affect the other side.