7 ms·

The UX of cassettes was very useful for sharing and swapping music or speech, and for resuming where one left off. Because of the linear tape, the cassette's "p

The UX of cassettes was very useful for sharing and swapping music or speech, and for resuming where one left off. Because of the linear tape, the cassette's "playback cursor" was stateful and independent from whether the medium was read-only or not. Playback resumed at (nearly) the same spot as it was last stopped, even if moved to a different player. Successor formats didn't have this property. Interestingly, Sony emulated the auto-resume feature in some Discman CD players, and later it became common in car CD players, but there was no way to maintain playback position after swapping players. Later, MP3 players maintained their own playback state, but getting tracks on or off the device's built-in or removable storage was with file-based interfaces that connected to computers. This stateful cursor functionality is only returning these days with URLs to media-hosting sites that accept timecode parameters.

sho 7y ago
I love how you conceptualise things based upon what seems to be your familiarity with DB cursors, stateful interfaces and other CS concepts. You're absolutely right, of course - it's just an interesting choice of conceptual frameworks to position your analogy within. I'm sure a non-programmer could also identify this property of cassettes as a medium, but they wouldn't be anywhere near as precise, nor use anything like that terminology... I'm reminded of a character called Randy in a book called Cryptonomicon: > To translate it into UNIX system administration terms (Randy's fundamental metaphor for just about everything) I had a smile of recognition reading that, just like I had a smile of recognition reading yours. Stateful indeed. You might even term it a continuation.
- agumonkey 7y ago
  it's even more interesting to think that people designed these devices without this frame of reference
  - alxlaz 7y ago
    They didn't :-). The cursor -- a moving indicator, as part of a slide rule or any other similar instrument -- has been called that way since the early 17th century.
    - agumonkey 7y ago
      it's not the name it's how and why it was on a tape
      - lm28469 7y ago
        > how and why it was on a tape I think you're overthinking the whole thing, it's not really "on" a tape. It's the default operation of a tape, they didn't have to come up with the idea, it's a side effect of the medium. You need a motor to move the tape, no motor = no movement = the tape stays in its current position. To automatically rewind the tape you'd need some sort of mechanism under tension in it which would probably make it less reliable / more expensive.
        agumonkey 7y ago
        that's what I was hinting at. Did the designer really think about it or was it just naturally there.
        dboreham 7y ago
        They didn't think about it.
        kd5bjo 7y ago
        What I really want to know is whether the fact that a standard pencil could be used to manually wind a cassette was an intended feature or a happy accident.
        johnnycab 7y ago
        I would wager it was the latter as Philips missed a trick in rebranding it as an accessory/dongle and monetising it. Now, if it was Apple..
        anticensor 7y ago
        I think it is intended.
- kgwgk 7y ago
  Note that “cursor” (Any part of a mathematical instrument that moves or slides backward and forward upon another part.) predates databases and computer interfaces.
gchokov 7y ago
I enjoyed reading your comment, and couldn't help but thinking how I miss this time. The joy of bringing something physical to somebody - a cassette, a vinyl - for their listening pleasure. The feedback loop from the act of giving and receiving. This whole idea of physical sharing made the music more personal and magical. Nowadays I have shared playlist for family and friends, and it lacks magic.
- livatlantis 7y ago
  I missed it too. So I went ahead and got an old, refurbished harman/kardon cassette deck after months of research about different cassette and deck varieties. Learnt about type 1 (ferric), type 2 (chromium dioxide) and type 4 (metal) cassettes. And now when I get back from work in the evening, I put on a cassette whilst making dinner. Or when I have friends over. And I let them pick the cassettes, which is always rather exciting. I listen to a lot of metal and classical music, so finding original cassettes (even the really nice metal ones) isn't that hard at all. Plus they're cheap! (Waaay cheaper than vinyl). And if all that weren't enough, there are bands still putting out cassettes: synthwave artists (Taurus 1984), indie bands (Tvivler), and even pop (Sigrid)! And if I don't find artists I like, I can always make my own ;) tldr: If you miss it, you can still go out get yourself a cassette deck and enjoy it!
  - ekianjo 7y ago
    > a lot of metal and classical music I find this part of your comment interesting because I have noticed such an overlap among a number of people versed in music. I wonder if there is a good way to explain this.
    - livatlantis 7y ago
      It is indeed interesting. I'd say that it has to do with: - complex structures (not necessarily always 4/4 or 3/4) - variations in dynamic range (loud parts vs. quiet parts) - storytelling / philosophical themes (the human condition, freedom, suffering, literature) - intense "solos" (Mendelssohn insanely fast yet moving segments on the piano vs. Petrucci going crazy on the guitar) - mastery of musical instruments (particularly true in progressive metal, but metal drummers, guitarists/bassists and keyboard players tend to play at a very high technical level) - song length (like Seventh Wonder's "The Great Escape" at about 30 mins) None of these individually are unique to either genre, but taken together, we can start seeing quite a bit of an overlap.
haywirez 7y ago
I’ve been thinking a lot about how the UX of cassettes and vinyl encouraged an immeasurably deeper immersion and exploration of music. My walkman would keep playing as the battery died, playing the music slower and slower still for about 20-25 minutes. This was fun and made it easier to figure out how electronic drum patterns and sounds were put together. To say that had an impact on my own productions later would be an understatement. Also it didn’t matter that I had one album or mix on the tape, I would happily listen to it hundreds of times. Didn’t need infinite scrolling libraries of compositions...
- agumonkey 7y ago
  There's something about the 2k+ era where the optimal point in life is timeless, perfect and predictable. Whereas most things we did enjoy before that were not.
- acomjean 7y ago
  I had the opposite experience once. In the 90s Louis Farrakhan spoke at umass. It was a strange time. I worked at the college paper and a reporter let me listen to her tape. when listening back he kept getting higher and higher pitched. It finally occurred to me that when recording him batteries where getting lower and lower and the tape was recording slower. When played back at normal speeds.. it never got to “Alvin and the chipmunks” high pitch but.
simonh 7y ago
When I was a student I worked up a mix tape for a girl I was into. I spun the tape to the start of the second track then gave it to her. Next time I saw her I (casually) asked her something she could only answer if she'd heard the first track. That meant I knew she'd played it through, then rewound it and played it again.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- v7p1Qbt1im 7y ago
  That's pretty genius. 18-year old me would have never thought of that.
- joncrane 7y ago
  Well? Did she play it all the way through?
  - hanniabu 7y ago
    Seriously, can't just leave us hanging with suspense like that
    - simonh 7y ago
      I'd say it worked out pretty well. I did worry about it being a bit stalker-y, but it certainly helped my self confidence.
- EliRivers 7y ago
  I remember that when someone would hand me a tape, I would generally rewind it to the start before pressing play; especially if I could see that they had not rewound it before giving it to me. Maybe she did that rather than play it twice.
cat199 7y ago
ahh yes.. but then there was the endless rewinding and fast-forwarding to find the part you wanted to hear.. CD's were a welcome change back to the random access of records for many
- slantyyz 7y ago
  I had portable cassette players that would rewind or fast forward to the next blank spot between songs. It was slow, crude and limited to the next and previous track, but it did work well in the era before CDs.
FabHK 7y ago
> Playback resumed at (nearly) the same spot as it was last stopped, even if moved to a different player. You did have to remember which side you were listening to, though. So, the tape carried all the necessary information to maintain state, minus 1 bit. :-)
moonbug 7y ago
Cool story.
TheAceOfHearts 7y ago
You'll probably be happy to learn about the file format M4B! It saves your listening position, so you can move it between systems and use different programs and it should remember your position. It's the preferred file format for audiobooks.

sho 7y ago

I love how you conceptualise things based upon what seems to be your familiarity with DB cursors, stateful interfaces and other CS concepts. You're absolutely right, of course - it's just an interesting choice of conceptual frameworks to position your analogy within. I'm sure a non-programmer could also identify this property of cassettes as a medium, but they wouldn't be anywhere near as precise, nor use anything like that terminology... I'm reminded of a character called Randy in a book called Cryptonomicon: > To translate it into UNIX system administration terms (Randy's fundamental metaphor for just about everything) I had a smile of recognition reading that, just like I had a smile of recognition reading yours. Stateful indeed. You might even term it a continuation.

agumonkey 7y ago
it's even more interesting to think that people designed these devices without this frame of reference
- alxlaz 7y ago
  They didn't :-). The cursor -- a moving indicator, as part of a slide rule or any other similar instrument -- has been called that way since the early 17th century.
  - agumonkey 7y ago
    it's not the name it's how and why it was on a tape
    - lm28469 7y ago
      > how and why it was on a tape I think you're overthinking the whole thing, it's not really "on" a tape. It's the default operation of a tape, they didn't have to come up with the idea, it's a side effect of the medium. You need a motor to move the tape, no motor = no movement = the tape stays in its current position. To automatically rewind the tape you'd need some sort of mechanism under tension in it which would probably make it less reliable / more expensive.
      - agumonkey 7y ago
        that's what I was hinting at. Did the designer really think about it or was it just naturally there.
        dboreham 7y ago
        They didn't think about it.
      - kd5bjo 7y ago
        What I really want to know is whether the fact that a standard pencil could be used to manually wind a cassette was an intended feature or a happy accident.
        johnnycab 7y ago
        I would wager it was the latter as Philips missed a trick in rebranding it as an accessory/dongle and monetising it. Now, if it was Apple..
        anticensor 7y ago
        I think it is intended.
kgwgk 7y ago
Note that “cursor” (Any part of a mathematical instrument that moves or slides backward and forward upon another part.) predates databases and computer interfaces.

gchokov 7y ago

I enjoyed reading your comment, and couldn't help but thinking how I miss this time. The joy of bringing something physical to somebody - a cassette, a vinyl - for their listening pleasure. The feedback loop from the act of giving and receiving. This whole idea of physical sharing made the music more personal and magical. Nowadays I have shared playlist for family and friends, and it lacks magic.

livatlantis 7y ago
I missed it too. So I went ahead and got an old, refurbished harman/kardon cassette deck after months of research about different cassette and deck varieties. Learnt about type 1 (ferric), type 2 (chromium dioxide) and type 4 (metal) cassettes. And now when I get back from work in the evening, I put on a cassette whilst making dinner. Or when I have friends over. And I let them pick the cassettes, which is always rather exciting. I listen to a lot of metal and classical music, so finding original cassettes (even the really nice metal ones) isn't that hard at all. Plus they're cheap! (Waaay cheaper than vinyl). And if all that weren't enough, there are bands still putting out cassettes: synthwave artists (Taurus 1984), indie bands (Tvivler), and even pop (Sigrid)! And if I don't find artists I like, I can always make my own ;) tldr: If you miss it, you can still go out get yourself a cassette deck and enjoy it!
- ekianjo 7y ago
  > a lot of metal and classical music I find this part of your comment interesting because I have noticed such an overlap among a number of people versed in music. I wonder if there is a good way to explain this.
  - livatlantis 7y ago
    It is indeed interesting. I'd say that it has to do with: - complex structures (not necessarily always 4/4 or 3/4) - variations in dynamic range (loud parts vs. quiet parts) - storytelling / philosophical themes (the human condition, freedom, suffering, literature) - intense "solos" (Mendelssohn insanely fast yet moving segments on the piano vs. Petrucci going crazy on the guitar) - mastery of musical instruments (particularly true in progressive metal, but metal drummers, guitarists/bassists and keyboard players tend to play at a very high technical level) - song length (like Seventh Wonder's "The Great Escape" at about 30 mins) None of these individually are unique to either genre, but taken together, we can start seeing quite a bit of an overlap.

haywirez 7y ago

I’ve been thinking a lot about how the UX of cassettes and vinyl encouraged an immeasurably deeper immersion and exploration of music. My walkman would keep playing as the battery died, playing the music slower and slower still for about 20-25 minutes. This was fun and made it easier to figure out how electronic drum patterns and sounds were put together. To say that had an impact on my own productions later would be an understatement. Also it didn’t matter that I had one album or mix on the tape, I would happily listen to it hundreds of times. Didn’t need infinite scrolling libraries of compositions...

agumonkey 7y ago
There's something about the 2k+ era where the optimal point in life is timeless, perfect and predictable. Whereas most things we did enjoy before that were not.
acomjean 7y ago
I had the opposite experience once. In the 90s Louis Farrakhan spoke at umass. It was a strange time. I worked at the college paper and a reporter let me listen to her tape. when listening back he kept getting higher and higher pitched. It finally occurred to me that when recording him batteries where getting lower and lower and the tape was recording slower. When played back at normal speeds.. it never got to “Alvin and the chipmunks” high pitch but.

simonh 7y ago

When I was a student I worked up a mix tape for a girl I was into. I spun the tape to the start of the second track then gave it to her. Next time I saw her I (casually) asked her something she could only answer if she'd heard the first track. That meant I knew she'd played it through, then rewound it and played it again.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
v7p1Qbt1im 7y ago
That's pretty genius. 18-year old me would have never thought of that.
joncrane 7y ago
Well? Did she play it all the way through?
- hanniabu 7y ago
  Seriously, can't just leave us hanging with suspense like that
  - simonh 7y ago
    I'd say it worked out pretty well. I did worry about it being a bit stalker-y, but it certainly helped my self confidence.
EliRivers 7y ago
I remember that when someone would hand me a tape, I would generally rewind it to the start before pressing play; especially if I could see that they had not rewound it before giving it to me. Maybe she did that rather than play it twice.

cat199 7y ago

ahh yes.. but then there was the endless rewinding and fast-forwarding to find the part you wanted to hear.. CD's were a welcome change back to the random access of records for many

slantyyz 7y ago
I had portable cassette players that would rewind or fast forward to the next blank spot between songs. It was slow, crude and limited to the next and previous track, but it did work well in the era before CDs.

FabHK 7y ago

> Playback resumed at (nearly) the same spot as it was last stopped, even if moved to a different player. You did have to remember which side you were listening to, though. So, the tape carried all the necessary information to maintain state, minus 1 bit. :-)

moonbug 7y ago

Cool story.

TheAceOfHearts 7y ago

You'll probably be happy to learn about the file format M4B! It saves your listening position, so you can move it between systems and use different programs and it should remember your position. It's the preferred file format for audiobooks.