4 ms·

> For example you could build an array of flywheels that charges when the frequency is above 50Hz and discharges when the frequency is below 50Hz. All rotary f

> For example you could build an array of flywheels that charges when the frequency is above 50Hz and discharges when the frequency is below 50Hz. All rotary field machines (power plant generators, phase shifters, motors) work this way and contribute stability to the grid. These basically add inertia (i.e. dampen frequency changes), but they do not regulate frequency. That's a fundamental difference.

wongarsu 7y ago
A simple motor or generator simply add inertia, but I see no reason why you can't use a flywheel to deliberatly regulate frequency, for example by adding a continuously variable transmission. But really inertia is all you need because all we are trying to do here is replacing the lost inertia from replacing spinning generators with solar. The recovered inertia gives human operators the time to make phone calls to increase energy production, spinning up a pumped-hydro plant or whatever is available.
- snowwindwaves 7y ago
  Who is going to pay to build and operate this flywheel inertia plant that generates no power? Sure it is possible but if you are going to spend that kind of money you can do a lot better.
  - wongarsu 7y ago
    The same people that would alternatively pay for smart grids: grid operators tha want to prevent blackouts in a changing environment. It's just another piece of infrastructre next to power lines and countless substations and transformers.
  - g_sch 7y ago
    It's been done already! Beacon Power operates a 20 MW / 5 MWh flywheel plant in Stephenstown, NY that does nothing but store grid energy and release it when needed. And ancillary services such as spinning reserve carry a price on the electricity market, so there is definitely an opportunity there. I'm not sure if frequency regulation is currently considered an ancillary service in electricity markets right now though - from what I know about NY state, only 10- and 30-minute reserve are priced.
snowwindwaves 7y ago
Usually power plant generators are required to respond to system frequency changes with a 5% droop characteristic so that they do regulate frequency by arresting dips and spikes.

wongarsu 7y ago

A simple motor or generator simply add inertia, but I see no reason why you can't use a flywheel to deliberatly regulate frequency, for example by adding a continuously variable transmission. But really inertia is all you need because all we are trying to do here is replacing the lost inertia from replacing spinning generators with solar. The recovered inertia gives human operators the time to make phone calls to increase energy production, spinning up a pumped-hydro plant or whatever is available.

snowwindwaves 7y ago
Who is going to pay to build and operate this flywheel inertia plant that generates no power? Sure it is possible but if you are going to spend that kind of money you can do a lot better.
- wongarsu 7y ago
  The same people that would alternatively pay for smart grids: grid operators tha want to prevent blackouts in a changing environment. It's just another piece of infrastructre next to power lines and countless substations and transformers.
- g_sch 7y ago
  It's been done already! Beacon Power operates a 20 MW / 5 MWh flywheel plant in Stephenstown, NY that does nothing but store grid energy and release it when needed. And ancillary services such as spinning reserve carry a price on the electricity market, so there is definitely an opportunity there. I'm not sure if frequency regulation is currently considered an ancillary service in electricity markets right now though - from what I know about NY state, only 10- and 30-minute reserve are priced.

snowwindwaves 7y ago

Usually power plant generators are required to respond to system frequency changes with a 5% droop characteristic so that they do regulate frequency by arresting dips and spikes.