5 ms·

I wonder if it's related to the trend in recent years of manufacturers marketing ultra low-budget Windows 10 laptops (and to a lesser extent tablets) with criti

by ushg 7y ago

I wonder if it's related to the trend in recent years of manufacturers marketing ultra low-budget Windows 10 laptops (and to a lesser extent tablets) with critically small amounts of non-upgradeable storage? An install of Windows 10 typically takes up ~26GB and there's already a problem with consumers discovering that their 32GB soldered eMMC machines are unable to perform any OS updates without jumping through extra hoops with external storage [0]. [0] https://www.dell.com/support/article/ie/en/iedhs1/sln310147/windows-10-needs-more-space-for-update-on-32gb-storage-devices?lang=en https://www.dell.com/support/article/ie/en/iedhs1/sln310147/...

kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
Those machines are already mostly unusable under Windows because MS only requires 2GiB minimum so it's an instant swapfest to eMMC. Put Linux on them and they're quite nice.
- gambiting 7y ago
  I disagree - I have one with a quad core atom, 1GB of ram(!!!) And latest windows 10 1903 edition runs very nicely on it if you stick to the built-in apps. I usually have it next to my main PC as an additional monitor with the wireless projector functionality .
  - 0815test 7y ago
    I'll hazard a guess that your Win10 machine on 1GB RAM is swapping plenty. A lightweight Linux distribution can run a reasonable desktop workload (including some web browsing!) on 1GB with zilch swap use, or on as little as 512MB with tolerable use of swap. It's a bit disappointing in a way, but Linux (and not even every Linux distro, for that matter) is the only OS where I can visibly tell that I'm running something reasonably bloat-free, and it makes the UX incredibly snappy and comfortable all-around.
    - StillBored 7y ago
      Well, i'm here to say that if you use a normal linux distro with KDE or Gnome your going to be in the multiple GB's of ram pretty quick. Sure you can have a stripped down linux distro with X/lxde or whatever in under 1GB, but you can also use windows IoT or Core for much the same effect. The problem is that MS (and the mainstream linux DE's) aren't willing to admit that some of the "modernization" they have done over the last decade has done nothing but increase the visual lag while massively increasing the resource consumption for what is frequently little more than transparent windows (cause high DPI is still not quite there in both cases...).
      - emilsedgh 7y ago
        That's not really true. My KDE is running in < 600MB right now. It's Chrome, Spotify and Slack that are eating memory. Also, at least in KDE you can set animation speed to instant and get immediate feedback. It's super stable, usable and polished.
    - davesmith1983 7y ago
      I have a pretty stripped down Arch Linux install and most of the ram usage comes from Firefox. The machine uses about 2-3gb of ram with a web browser and XFCE running.
    - slacka 7y ago
      No, Windows did not eat your RAM. Your "guess" would be wrong. I've installed Win 10 to 1GB VM machines many times. The OS itself takes a little over 512 of RAM in this scenario. No swapping at all if your not using any apps more than 512MB. The reason you probably are assuming Win 10 is unusable is that on your 8 or 16GB machine Windows uses free RAM to speed things up. It's is smart enough to not do this on memory constraints setups. Funny thing is Linux users often made this same mistake with "free -m", hence the need for this site: https://www.linuxatemyram.com/ https://www.linuxatemyram.com/
      - x0 7y ago
        I've had to install and run Windows Server 2016 on an XP-era desktop with 256MB RAM... oh it was painful, agonisingly painful, with constant swapping. But it worked!
  - SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago
    Windows 10 runs very nicely... If you only want to use the machine as an external monitor? Respectfully, this doesn't seem like a very realistic use case for most people.
    - gambiting 7y ago
      That's not what I said. I said it runs really nicely if you stick to the built-in apps, and that I use mine as an external monitor. Those two are not mutually exclusive.
cardiffspaceman 7y ago
One of the earliest Win10 updates was "bricking" machines if a device was in the SD card slot during the update process. Guess where my update media were? The machine became a Debian machine. It was "bricked" only to the extent that there was no way forward from the failed update to getting Windows back.
- flukus 7y ago
  Reminds me of my Nokia 3 which is stuck in a non up-gradable loop. What I think is happening is that the the new image is downloaded to the SD card, then when you restart to upgrade the SD card isn't mounted so the upgrade fails, then you reboot again and you've lost all your shortcuts to apps on the SD card. I'm not sure if it's the image itself on the SD card or something else required but it's obvious Nokia don't spend much on QA.

by ushg 7y ago

kevin_thibedeau 7y ago

Those machines are already mostly unusable under Windows because MS only requires 2GiB minimum so it's an instant swapfest to eMMC. Put Linux on them and they're quite nice.

gambiting 7y ago
I disagree - I have one with a quad core atom, 1GB of ram(!!!) And latest windows 10 1903 edition runs very nicely on it if you stick to the built-in apps. I usually have it next to my main PC as an additional monitor with the wireless projector functionality .
- 0815test 7y ago
  I'll hazard a guess that your Win10 machine on 1GB RAM is swapping plenty. A lightweight Linux distribution can run a reasonable desktop workload (including some web browsing!) on 1GB with zilch swap use, or on as little as 512MB with tolerable use of swap. It's a bit disappointing in a way, but Linux (and not even every Linux distro, for that matter) is the only OS where I can visibly tell that I'm running something reasonably bloat-free, and it makes the UX incredibly snappy and comfortable all-around.
  - StillBored 7y ago
    Well, i'm here to say that if you use a normal linux distro with KDE or Gnome your going to be in the multiple GB's of ram pretty quick. Sure you can have a stripped down linux distro with X/lxde or whatever in under 1GB, but you can also use windows IoT or Core for much the same effect. The problem is that MS (and the mainstream linux DE's) aren't willing to admit that some of the "modernization" they have done over the last decade has done nothing but increase the visual lag while massively increasing the resource consumption for what is frequently little more than transparent windows (cause high DPI is still not quite there in both cases...).
    - emilsedgh 7y ago
      That's not really true. My KDE is running in < 600MB right now. It's Chrome, Spotify and Slack that are eating memory. Also, at least in KDE you can set animation speed to instant and get immediate feedback. It's super stable, usable and polished.
  - davesmith1983 7y ago
    I have a pretty stripped down Arch Linux install and most of the ram usage comes from Firefox. The machine uses about 2-3gb of ram with a web browser and XFCE running.
  - slacka 7y ago
    No, Windows did not eat your RAM. Your "guess" would be wrong. I've installed Win 10 to 1GB VM machines many times. The OS itself takes a little over 512 of RAM in this scenario. No swapping at all if your not using any apps more than 512MB. The reason you probably are assuming Win 10 is unusable is that on your 8 or 16GB machine Windows uses free RAM to speed things up. It's is smart enough to not do this on memory constraints setups. Funny thing is Linux users often made this same mistake with "free -m", hence the need for this site: https://www.linuxatemyram.com/ https://www.linuxatemyram.com/
    - x0 7y ago
      I've had to install and run Windows Server 2016 on an XP-era desktop with 256MB RAM... oh it was painful, agonisingly painful, with constant swapping. But it worked!
- SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago
  Windows 10 runs very nicely... If you only want to use the machine as an external monitor? Respectfully, this doesn't seem like a very realistic use case for most people.
  - gambiting 7y ago
    That's not what I said. I said it runs really nicely if you stick to the built-in apps, and that I use mine as an external monitor. Those two are not mutually exclusive.

cardiffspaceman 7y ago

One of the earliest Win10 updates was "bricking" machines if a device was in the SD card slot during the update process. Guess where my update media were? The machine became a Debian machine. It was "bricked" only to the extent that there was no way forward from the failed update to getting Windows back.

flukus 7y ago
Reminds me of my Nokia 3 which is stuck in a non up-gradable loop. What I think is happening is that the the new image is downloaded to the SD card, then when you restart to upgrade the SD card isn't mounted so the upgrade fails, then you reboot again and you've lost all your shortcuts to apps on the SD card. I'm not sure if it's the image itself on the SD card or something else required but it's obvious Nokia don't spend much on QA.