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> Care to elaborate? It solves authentication for us and we are using it for 10+ years like this If "we use plaintext passwords communicated to a faux user" is

> Care to elaborate? It solves authentication for us and we are using it for 10+ years like this If "we use plaintext passwords communicated to a faux user" is your idea of "solved" then we have very different standards. > Let me check my current znc IRC session signon: Wed Jul 18 07:43:12 Congrats on being rich and lucky I guess? That's not a thing most folks can replicate at scale. I have had more than one IP address in the duration of writing this post.

aidenn0 7y ago
I agree with you on persistent logs, but I authenticate with an SSL client certificate, not a password. This is supported by several networks. Also, what do you mean by "plaintext"? Good id services will store a hashed password and the irc connection can be over SSL. That's no more plaintext than any web service login.
- KirinDave 7y ago
  The difference being that there are absolutely no better options. Everyone agrees the login form model is insufficient and that's why anyone who takes personal security seriously now introduces a lot of infrastructure around their logins. But aside, it seems like not all networks support TLS logins? As it stands, I have no IRC equivalent of a 2FA key. I present a plaintext token and hope that it's all handled properly and that I'm not a victim of a password reuse attack. Any web based solution is light years ahead on this.
  - tastroder 7y ago
    > As it stands, I have no IRC equivalent of a 2FA key. I present a plaintext token and hope that it's all handled properly and that I'm not a victim of a password reuse attack. > Any web based solution is light years ahead on this. That's also the case for 99% of authentication in the web context. 2FA adoption is on the rise but by no means the standard. If it was a thing users asked for, there's no protocol reason a nickserv service and clients couldn't adopt a 2FA flow, even without breaking backwards-compatibility.
lossolo 7y ago
> If "we use plaintext passwords communicated to a faux user" is your idea of "solved" then we have very different standards. plaintext? In our use case TLS usage is mandatory and passwords are not stored in plaintext. I think your knowledge about how IRC is used now is a little outdated. > Congrats on being rich and lucky I guess? That's not a thing most folks can replicate at scale. I have had more than one IP address in the duration of writing this post. VPN -> znc -> IRC You don't need to be rich and lucky to replicate this. Signon time was from znc to irc, not from my home connection to irc.
- KirinDave 7y ago
  > plaintext? TLS usage is mandatory and passwords are not stored in plaintext. I think your knowledge about how IRC is used now is a little outdated. Actually I wondered if that might be the case so I checked TFM: https://freenode.net/kb/answer/registration https://freenode.net/kb/answer/registration Plaintext negotiation is my complaint. I doubt we'd be discussing this if it was plaintext storage. Not even the most fanatical IRC proponent would be okay with that. > TLS usage is mandatory and passwords are not stored in it plaintext. I think your knowledge about how IRC is used now is a little outdated. > VPN -> znc -> IRC Where is your znc hosted? How much does it cost? Are you paying for a VPN service (please no)? Even having a decent in-home internet connection, a way to route traffic back into your network, and a raspberry pi to host it on is a tall order.
  - tastroder 7y ago
    > Actually I wondered if that might be the case so I checked TFM: https://freenode.net/kb/answer/registration https://freenode.net/kb/answer/registration You can do all that over an encrypted connection [1] if you like. All this protocol nitpicking kind of ignores that IRC is a stack that is a) open to a multitude of clients and thus use cases (vs. all those fancy web-things that offer me either lockin and emojis or a lack of user base) and b) proven over decades. Yeah, it has it's inherited edge cases and downsides but this thread makes it seem like it's a stupid idea somebody came up with in 2 hours, which it is absolutely not. [1] https://freenode.net/kb/answer/chat https://freenode.net/kb/answer/chat

aidenn0 7y ago

I agree with you on persistent logs, but I authenticate with an SSL client certificate, not a password. This is supported by several networks. Also, what do you mean by "plaintext"? Good id services will store a hashed password and the irc connection can be over SSL. That's no more plaintext than any web service login.

KirinDave 7y ago
The difference being that there are absolutely no better options. Everyone agrees the login form model is insufficient and that's why anyone who takes personal security seriously now introduces a lot of infrastructure around their logins. But aside, it seems like not all networks support TLS logins? As it stands, I have no IRC equivalent of a 2FA key. I present a plaintext token and hope that it's all handled properly and that I'm not a victim of a password reuse attack. Any web based solution is light years ahead on this.
- tastroder 7y ago
  > As it stands, I have no IRC equivalent of a 2FA key. I present a plaintext token and hope that it's all handled properly and that I'm not a victim of a password reuse attack. > Any web based solution is light years ahead on this. That's also the case for 99% of authentication in the web context. 2FA adoption is on the rise but by no means the standard. If it was a thing users asked for, there's no protocol reason a nickserv service and clients couldn't adopt a 2FA flow, even without breaking backwards-compatibility.

lossolo 7y ago

> If "we use plaintext passwords communicated to a faux user" is your idea of "solved" then we have very different standards. plaintext? In our use case TLS usage is mandatory and passwords are not stored in plaintext. I think your knowledge about how IRC is used now is a little outdated. > Congrats on being rich and lucky I guess? That's not a thing most folks can replicate at scale. I have had more than one IP address in the duration of writing this post. VPN -> znc -> IRC You don't need to be rich and lucky to replicate this. Signon time was from znc to irc, not from my home connection to irc.

KirinDave 7y ago
> plaintext? TLS usage is mandatory and passwords are not stored in plaintext. I think your knowledge about how IRC is used now is a little outdated. Actually I wondered if that might be the case so I checked TFM: https://freenode.net/kb/answer/registration https://freenode.net/kb/answer/registration Plaintext negotiation is my complaint. I doubt we'd be discussing this if it was plaintext storage. Not even the most fanatical IRC proponent would be okay with that. > TLS usage is mandatory and passwords are not stored in it plaintext. I think your knowledge about how IRC is used now is a little outdated. > VPN -> znc -> IRC Where is your znc hosted? How much does it cost? Are you paying for a VPN service (please no)? Even having a decent in-home internet connection, a way to route traffic back into your network, and a raspberry pi to host it on is a tall order.
- tastroder 7y ago
  > Actually I wondered if that might be the case so I checked TFM: https://freenode.net/kb/answer/registration https://freenode.net/kb/answer/registration You can do all that over an encrypted connection [1] if you like. All this protocol nitpicking kind of ignores that IRC is a stack that is a) open to a multitude of clients and thus use cases (vs. all those fancy web-things that offer me either lockin and emojis or a lack of user base) and b) proven over decades. Yeah, it has it's inherited edge cases and downsides but this thread makes it seem like it's a stupid idea somebody came up with in 2 hours, which it is absolutely not. [1] https://freenode.net/kb/answer/chat https://freenode.net/kb/answer/chat