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In the US I would take a sleeper train from Seattle to Chicago instead of a plane provided the sleeper train runs 180 mph on average. Not really doable for a l

In the US I would take a sleeper train from Seattle to Chicago instead of a plane provided the sleeper train runs 180 mph on average. Not really doable for a lot of Austria and generally the Alpine regions. There are not many high speed tracks in Austria and Switzerland, the reason being that the countries are relatively small and that building high speed tracks through the alps is insanely expensive. Switzerland built two base tunnels through the alps: The Lötschberg[1] - and Gotthard[2] base tunnels, which are geared to a top speed of 250 km/h (ca. 155 miles/h) and a normal travel speed of 200 km/h (125). That's why it takes roughly 10 hours to get from Zurich to Vienna, but only 4 to get from Zurich to Paris (after Mulhouse the whole track is high speed capable and trains run with up to 320 kmh (200 m) on that track. Edited to add: Of course night trains make a lot of sense on that route. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%B6tschberg_Base_Tunnel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%B6tschberg_Base_Tunnel [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotthard_Base_Tunnel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotthard_Base_Tunnel

jandrese 7y ago
It's not every day you see someone bemoaning the sorry state of their European rail lines compared to the US.
- CaptainZapp 7y ago
  Not bemoaning at all, it's a matter of size, geography and topology why HSR does not make much sense in a country like Switzerland. The country is roughly 300km long and ~200km high, add to that a lot of cities, which need to be serviced with relatively small distances. HSR only makes sense, when a train can travel big distances between nodes. Instead a different approach was chosen: The trains are dispatched by clock face scheduling[1], which makes much more sense. Trains leave nodes by the (usually) half hour and deliver passengers to connecting nodes within the time required to connect to transfer. This guarantees scheduled connections, even when there's no direct train. For example: If you want to get from Zurich to Lugano there are trains leaving at 5:10pm, 6:10pm, 7:10pm, etc. The first and the last are direct trains, with the 6:10 you need to get out at Arth Goldau to connect with another train, which leaves 4 minutes later. For a small country like Switzerland this concept makes far more sense than HSR. It's probably one of the most efficient train networks with the exception of Japan. So bemoaning generally happens on a very high level, if at all. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clock-face_scheduling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clock-face_scheduling
ido 7y ago
In Austria if you're traveling between big cities you're probably traveling to a neighboring country (very common to travel to Germany, Czech, Hungary, etc by rail). Unfortunately Germany is the only neighbor with an extensive high-speed rail network that Austria has.
alkonaut 7y ago
> Not really doable for a lot of Austria and generally the Alpine regions. On the other hand that distance is a lot smaller than Chicago-Seattle (4x) so the lack of high speed in the alpine region isn't as noticable for a night train because the distances are much shorter. The thing about sleeper trains is that you need the distance to be 8-15 hours. If it's less than 8h you'd get uncomfortable departure or arrival times. 10h for Zurich-Vienna is perfect for a sleeper.
undersuit 7y ago
TBF the Rockies are no easy passage either. Amtrak runs on the Hi-Line year round, over 2200 miles. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_Builder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_Builder
- jschwartzi 7y ago
  This is a good 3-4 days of constant train travel to get to the destination. The thing I'm complaining about is that the plane is almost too fast for what I want to use it for, while the train is incredibly slow. It would be cool if there were a way for me to leave Seattle on Sunday night and arrive in Chicago on Monday morning having gotten a full night of sleep.
FabHK 7y ago
The railway from Beijing via Xining to Lhasa in Tibet passes over the Tanggula Pass at 5,072 m (16,640 feet) above sea level (apparently the world's highest point on a railway) before dropping you at Lhasa at 3,490 m (11,975 feet) [1]. It takes two days at around 100 to 120 km/h over 675 bridges, though some recommend [2] that you spend a day or so in Xining on the way to acclimatise to the altitude. Every train carries a doctor and oxygen to increase the concentration of oxygen in the carriages from 21% to 25% (but no pressurisation), plus a separate oxygen supply for each passenger. I'm not a fan of China, but its rail network is something to behold. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qinghai–Tibet_railway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qinghai–Tibet_railway [2] https://www.yowangdu.com/tibet-travel/tibet-train.html https://www.yowangdu.com/tibet-travel/tibet-train.html

jandrese 7y ago

It's not every day you see someone bemoaning the sorry state of their European rail lines compared to the US.

CaptainZapp 7y ago
Not bemoaning at all, it's a matter of size, geography and topology why HSR does not make much sense in a country like Switzerland. The country is roughly 300km long and ~200km high, add to that a lot of cities, which need to be serviced with relatively small distances. HSR only makes sense, when a train can travel big distances between nodes. Instead a different approach was chosen: The trains are dispatched by clock face scheduling[1], which makes much more sense. Trains leave nodes by the (usually) half hour and deliver passengers to connecting nodes within the time required to connect to transfer. This guarantees scheduled connections, even when there's no direct train. For example: If you want to get from Zurich to Lugano there are trains leaving at 5:10pm, 6:10pm, 7:10pm, etc. The first and the last are direct trains, with the 6:10 you need to get out at Arth Goldau to connect with another train, which leaves 4 minutes later. For a small country like Switzerland this concept makes far more sense than HSR. It's probably one of the most efficient train networks with the exception of Japan. So bemoaning generally happens on a very high level, if at all. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clock-face_scheduling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clock-face_scheduling

ido 7y ago

In Austria if you're traveling between big cities you're probably traveling to a neighboring country (very common to travel to Germany, Czech, Hungary, etc by rail). Unfortunately Germany is the only neighbor with an extensive high-speed rail network that Austria has.

alkonaut 7y ago

> Not really doable for a lot of Austria and generally the Alpine regions. On the other hand that distance is a lot smaller than Chicago-Seattle (4x) so the lack of high speed in the alpine region isn't as noticable for a night train because the distances are much shorter. The thing about sleeper trains is that you need the distance to be 8-15 hours. If it's less than 8h you'd get uncomfortable departure or arrival times. 10h for Zurich-Vienna is perfect for a sleeper.

undersuit 7y ago

TBF the Rockies are no easy passage either. Amtrak runs on the Hi-Line year round, over 2200 miles. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_Builder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_Builder

jschwartzi 7y ago
This is a good 3-4 days of constant train travel to get to the destination. The thing I'm complaining about is that the plane is almost too fast for what I want to use it for, while the train is incredibly slow. It would be cool if there were a way for me to leave Seattle on Sunday night and arrive in Chicago on Monday morning having gotten a full night of sleep.

FabHK 7y ago

The railway from Beijing via Xining to Lhasa in Tibet passes over the Tanggula Pass at 5,072 m (16,640 feet) above sea level (apparently the world's highest point on a railway) before dropping you at Lhasa at 3,490 m (11,975 feet) [1]. It takes two days at around 100 to 120 km/h over 675 bridges, though some recommend [2] that you spend a day or so in Xining on the way to acclimatise to the altitude. Every train carries a doctor and oxygen to increase the concentration of oxygen in the carriages from 21% to 25% (but no pressurisation), plus a separate oxygen supply for each passenger. I'm not a fan of China, but its rail network is something to behold. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qinghai–Tibet_railway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qinghai–Tibet_railway [2] https://www.yowangdu.com/tibet-travel/tibet-train.html https://www.yowangdu.com/tibet-travel/tibet-train.html