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I see nothing wrong with sustainably farming whales like any other animal. Certain species have been endangered and those should be protected, but responsible c

I see nothing wrong with sustainably farming whales like any other animal. Certain species have been endangered and those should be protected, but responsible consumption of traditional foods is an important way to preserve culture.

vectorEQ 7y ago
agree 100% - it's difficult with some industries to enforce this, but it's important not to dismiss culture and keep it alive.
- moate 7y ago
  Nah, that's the whole thing about "culture". It's not real. It's not tangible. It's a personal feeling. My father grew up in northern Illinois (where I was born and lived until a teen) and bemoaned the tearing down of the confederate monuments in the south, to which I rolled my eyes. Meanwhile parents strongly celebrated a Scottish heritage generations removed and comprising about 10% of my actual ancestors. Cultures change. They evolve. They eat themselves, absorb other cultures, and sometimes fade from existence. It's all as important as you want it to be. That said, if your culture needs to kill whales for funsies, I'm going to go ahead and personally say your culture isn't something I support and would prefer went away.
ben_w 7y ago
From what I’ve gathered, Japanese whaling is about as traditional as British rule of Africa, India, and America. Although the article quotes a hunter claiming their village has done it for 400 years, it also later says “A number of coastal communities in Japan have hunted whales for centuries but consumption only became widespread after World War Two when other food was scarce.” Also, whales aren’t being farmed, they’re just being hunted.
- ufmace 7y ago
  What is the correct amount of time for a tradition to exist before it deserves to be protected?
  - erikpukinskis 7y ago
    It's not a question of whether new traditions deserve to be protected. Of course many do. It's a question of whether argument-from-tradition is a valid argument for continuing a practice. For relatively new "traditions", it's not. You need other reasons.
  - magduf 7y ago
    There's no tradition that should ever be protected just because it's a tradition. If people want to do something that's a tradition and is totally harmless, that's fine, but then it shouldn't need any protection. You only need "protection" because there's some reason the tradition can't continue without it.
deleted 7y ago
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ufo 7y ago
Whale hunting is not sustainable. They are animals that live very long lives, and reproduce very slowly.
craigsmansion 7y ago
We, as a species, are also any other animal. At the moment, there's very little we can tell about the exact make up of their intelligence. Imagine, with your current intelligence, growing up in a world where you can move in three dimensions which has poor visibility but carries sounds very well. There are no fixed spots, so there is no "here". You also have no opposable thumbs, so you will never create tools or written records. Now imagine that evolving over eons and generation upon generation: you might end up with a world view, a culture, and thought process that is complete alien. What we observe as whale-songs might simply be them re-telling their Edda in an Ent-like fashion. We might be inadvertently hunting members of a species that is intellectually equal to ours, but too alien to understand.
- cygx 7y ago
  Humpback whales have been known to protect other species (eg seals or gray whales) from orcas. Also, not all 'killer whales' are created equal: Some populations restrict their diet to fish and don't hunt mammals at all. It's not impossible that some animals besides humans could be capable of moral reasoning at that level. On the flip side, let's hope intelligent life forms from an environment totally alien to us never arrive here and get a taste for human flesh...
  - magduf 7y ago
    >Humpback whales have been known to protect other species (eg seals or gray whales) from orcas. I wonder what the humpbacks have against orcas. >let's hope intelligent life forms from an environment totally alien to us never arrive here and get a taste for human flesh... If they have a book with the title "To Serve Man", run for the hills.[1] [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Serve_Man_(The_Twilight_Zone) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Serve_Man_(The_Twilight_Zon...
ufmace 7y ago
This. The moratorium was supposed to be about not allowing the species to be driven to extinction. If that's not a risk anymore, exactly what is the problem? Did these conservationists lie when they told us that this was all about protecting the existence of the species? It sure seems like it's really about eradicating a culture. We all know how well that has gone in the past. Maybe we should interpret future statements from these types of conservationists in light of this.
- bburinanan 7y ago
  i think you mean murder not culture.
dredds 7y ago
Sure, if they 'preserved their culture' by whaling in traditional wooden craft in Japanese waters that would be fine, but they bring their mechanized slaughter factories deep into Southern Oceans around New Zealand and Antarctica where local whale sightseeing (tourism) is a far more sustainable and ecological enterprise.
PhasmaFelis 7y ago
> I see nothing wrong with sustainably farming whales like any other animal. Japan has never cared about sustainable whale-hunting before.
matz1 7y ago
Ultimately its a preference, whoever can force the other side to follow (persuasively or physically) will be the winner.
ceejayoz 7y ago
I'm pretty uncomfortable with hunting animals as intelligent as whales and elephants.

vectorEQ 7y ago

agree 100% - it's difficult with some industries to enforce this, but it's important not to dismiss culture and keep it alive.

moate 7y ago
Nah, that's the whole thing about "culture". It's not real. It's not tangible. It's a personal feeling. My father grew up in northern Illinois (where I was born and lived until a teen) and bemoaned the tearing down of the confederate monuments in the south, to which I rolled my eyes. Meanwhile parents strongly celebrated a Scottish heritage generations removed and comprising about 10% of my actual ancestors. Cultures change. They evolve. They eat themselves, absorb other cultures, and sometimes fade from existence. It's all as important as you want it to be. That said, if your culture needs to kill whales for funsies, I'm going to go ahead and personally say your culture isn't something I support and would prefer went away.

ben_w 7y ago

From what I’ve gathered, Japanese whaling is about as traditional as British rule of Africa, India, and America. Although the article quotes a hunter claiming their village has done it for 400 years, it also later says “A number of coastal communities in Japan have hunted whales for centuries but consumption only became widespread after World War Two when other food was scarce.” Also, whales aren’t being farmed, they’re just being hunted.

ufmace 7y ago
What is the correct amount of time for a tradition to exist before it deserves to be protected?
- erikpukinskis 7y ago
  It's not a question of whether new traditions deserve to be protected. Of course many do. It's a question of whether argument-from-tradition is a valid argument for continuing a practice. For relatively new "traditions", it's not. You need other reasons.
- magduf 7y ago
  There's no tradition that should ever be protected just because it's a tradition. If people want to do something that's a tradition and is totally harmless, that's fine, but then it shouldn't need any protection. You only need "protection" because there's some reason the tradition can't continue without it.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

ufo 7y ago

Whale hunting is not sustainable. They are animals that live very long lives, and reproduce very slowly.

craigsmansion 7y ago

We, as a species, are also any other animal. At the moment, there's very little we can tell about the exact make up of their intelligence. Imagine, with your current intelligence, growing up in a world where you can move in three dimensions which has poor visibility but carries sounds very well. There are no fixed spots, so there is no "here". You also have no opposable thumbs, so you will never create tools or written records. Now imagine that evolving over eons and generation upon generation: you might end up with a world view, a culture, and thought process that is complete alien. What we observe as whale-songs might simply be them re-telling their Edda in an Ent-like fashion. We might be inadvertently hunting members of a species that is intellectually equal to ours, but too alien to understand.

cygx 7y ago
Humpback whales have been known to protect other species (eg seals or gray whales) from orcas. Also, not all 'killer whales' are created equal: Some populations restrict their diet to fish and don't hunt mammals at all. It's not impossible that some animals besides humans could be capable of moral reasoning at that level. On the flip side, let's hope intelligent life forms from an environment totally alien to us never arrive here and get a taste for human flesh...
- magduf 7y ago
  >Humpback whales have been known to protect other species (eg seals or gray whales) from orcas. I wonder what the humpbacks have against orcas. >let's hope intelligent life forms from an environment totally alien to us never arrive here and get a taste for human flesh... If they have a book with the title "To Serve Man", run for the hills.[1] [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Serve_Man_(The_Twilight_Zone) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Serve_Man_(The_Twilight_Zon...

ufmace 7y ago

This. The moratorium was supposed to be about not allowing the species to be driven to extinction. If that's not a risk anymore, exactly what is the problem? Did these conservationists lie when they told us that this was all about protecting the existence of the species? It sure seems like it's really about eradicating a culture. We all know how well that has gone in the past. Maybe we should interpret future statements from these types of conservationists in light of this.

bburinanan 7y ago
i think you mean murder not culture.

dredds 7y ago

Sure, if they 'preserved their culture' by whaling in traditional wooden craft in Japanese waters that would be fine, but they bring their mechanized slaughter factories deep into Southern Oceans around New Zealand and Antarctica where local whale sightseeing (tourism) is a far more sustainable and ecological enterprise.

PhasmaFelis 7y ago

> I see nothing wrong with sustainably farming whales like any other animal. Japan has never cared about sustainable whale-hunting before.

matz1 7y ago

Ultimately its a preference, whoever can force the other side to follow (persuasively or physically) will be the winner.

ceejayoz 7y ago

I'm pretty uncomfortable with hunting animals as intelligent as whales and elephants.