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It wasn't obvious to me that a population that diverged from ours a million years ago would still be able to interbreed with us less than 50,000 years ago. Tha

by dkarl 16y ago

It wasn't obvious to me that a population that diverged from ours a million years ago would still be able to interbreed with us less than 50,000 years ago. That's tens of thousands of generations. I'm not surprised that they tried, but mildly surprised that they produced viable offspring. After all, there was previously some doubt that we could have interbred with Neanderthals, and we diverged from them only 500,000 years ago. We're twice as many generations removed from the Denisovans. Or maybe those dates are wrong; the diagram in the article seems to say that the Denisovans and the Neanderthals diverged from the human lineage at the same time. I got the dates I cited from this article from earlier this year: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8583254.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8583254.stm

dkarl 16y ago
P.S. The other interesting aspect of interbreeding is that it tells us 1) that the humans leaving Africa had significant, repeated encounters with another kind of hominid species, and 2) not only did they interbreed with them, but the offspring were well-enough integrated into early human society that they were able to survive and reproduce further. The second point means that either immediately or eventually, the descendants of the Denisovans were considered fully human. How did that happen? Were the Denisovans already considered fully "human" by the humans leaving Africa? Or were they considered lower, like dogs or cattle? What about vice-versa? The details of the interaction would be fascinating if we could learn them. The interbreeding was doubtlessly often a byproduct of violence, when women were stolen in raids, or when one band wiped out the men of another band in a war and appropriated their land, women, and property. But did it also happen through peaceful means? Were crossbreed children treated as fully "human" right away or were they treated as sub-human until a few more generations of cross-breeding allowed them to "pass?" Were the two kinds of humans similar enough to form families together and feel love and familiar affection, or was it just sheer horndoggery? Could they even learn each other's languages? Interbreeding shows that it makes sense to ask these kinds of questions.
- ohashi 16y ago
  As fascinating as it would be to know, I doubt we will ever have any conclusive evidence :(
- JoeAltmaier 16y ago
  If modern humans are any measure, then all your worst suppositions were probably true. Slaves, cattle, playthings, whatever, they were certainly treated differently than 'legitimate' offspring. Imagine if today there were certifiably different, perhaps measurably inferior people around. How would we treat them? And we're educated, civilized people.

by dkarl 16y ago

dkarl 16y ago

P.S. The other interesting aspect of interbreeding is that it tells us 1) that the humans leaving Africa had significant, repeated encounters with another kind of hominid species, and 2) not only did they interbreed with them, but the offspring were well-enough integrated into early human society that they were able to survive and reproduce further. The second point means that either immediately or eventually, the descendants of the Denisovans were considered fully human. How did that happen? Were the Denisovans already considered fully "human" by the humans leaving Africa? Or were they considered lower, like dogs or cattle? What about vice-versa? The details of the interaction would be fascinating if we could learn them. The interbreeding was doubtlessly often a byproduct of violence, when women were stolen in raids, or when one band wiped out the men of another band in a war and appropriated their land, women, and property. But did it also happen through peaceful means? Were crossbreed children treated as fully "human" right away or were they treated as sub-human until a few more generations of cross-breeding allowed them to "pass?" Were the two kinds of humans similar enough to form families together and feel love and familiar affection, or was it just sheer horndoggery? Could they even learn each other's languages? Interbreeding shows that it makes sense to ask these kinds of questions.

ohashi 16y ago
As fascinating as it would be to know, I doubt we will ever have any conclusive evidence :(
JoeAltmaier 16y ago
If modern humans are any measure, then all your worst suppositions were probably true. Slaves, cattle, playthings, whatever, they were certainly treated differently than 'legitimate' offspring. Imagine if today there were certifiably different, perhaps measurably inferior people around. How would we treat them? And we're educated, civilized people.