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Personally I wouldn't call it understating car dependence so much as underestimating the alternatives. Which reminds me of Cities Skylines and how they did the

Personally I wouldn't call it understating car dependence so much as underestimating the alternatives. Which reminds me of Cities Skylines and how they did the opposite for what was probably an amusing oversight. Foot paths are very good for traffic without congestion which makes perfect sense. What doesn't make sense is the complete lack of time or distance limit meaning the population will happily walk a massive pedestrian walkway the length of an entire sector. A somewhat more realistic way is to use subways to link your high density residences with no highway access to places like work and retail while leaving the roads for mostly delivery trucks and emergency services. Apparently Japanese developments were practically planned this way - adding to where a new subway loop and putting housing on top for synergy.

nicoburns 7y ago
> What doesn't make sense is the complete lack of time or distance limit meaning the population will happily walk a massive pedestrian walkway the length of an entire sector. How far is sector? What would you consider reasonable walking distances? Something like 30mins regularly, 60-90mins occasionally?
- DoreenMichele 7y ago
  Real world transit-oriented design in the US routinely uses either 1/4 mile or 1/2 mile for the radius from transit that most people can/will walk. I believe they estimate that it takes 15 minutes to walk a quarter mile and 30 minutes to walk half a mile. Single data point: I'm a pedestrian. I haven't owned a car in over a decade. I'm willing to walk up to 30 minutes regularly and farther occasionally. I also use public transit sometimes.
  - asark 7y ago
    30 minutes for a half-mile? Is that the round-trip time or something?
    - silversconfused 7y ago
      Potentially that amount of time would allow carrying some groceries with a screaming toddler in tow.
    - DoreenMichele 7y ago
      No, that's little old ladies in street clothes hobbling as fast as they can. People walking as a mode of transit aren't competing with joggers for who gets there first. These times are for planning purposes. Of course, it's okay if you walk faster than that. But planning departments need to look at "Who will actually walk this?" And the answer is "Ordinary people will walk it if it isn't over 30 minutes, but 15 minutes is better. And that works at these distances." You see the most traffic from establishments within a quarter mile, and some additional traffic within the half mile radius but outside the quarter mile. It drops off steeply outside of the half mile radius.
      - asark 7y ago
        Ah, makes sense. 30 minutes is a very slowly walked city mile for me (25min at a casual, unhurried pace, shaving a couple minutes off that for a 22-23min time with a bit more bounce in the step but still not jogging or even speed-walking) so I figured it was either round-trip or the slowest speed anyone capable of walking anywhere at all would attain—seems it's the latter.
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- Nasrudith 7y ago
  By sector I mean map section - you start with one and can buy more with growth to model city annexing. They aren't small. If it is a flat area of land parcelled out for maximium footprint I think it would be for at least four or five separate emergency services buildings to cover it when fully built. While I get that tolerances vary I think walking marathons is a bit unreasonable for a commute and should probably draw complaints and lower desirability like congestion about things being too far away. It could be a case of differing norms admittedly. Reminds me of one complaint from an online friend in Southern California about how Civilization used an unrealistically dark color for the ocean - she was used to a lighter blue compared to the more northern ocean color chosen. Both colors are realistic but assumptions differed and varying it visually would be confusing for gameplay reasons. Anyway I would probably set the game limit to a fraction of a typical service radius (perhaps specifically setting it based on age and health) or make it more consistent with their sidewalk preference behavior. Like say if the walking distance for children was the radius of a small elementry school but for teens it was half the radius of the high school.

nicoburns 7y ago

> What doesn't make sense is the complete lack of time or distance limit meaning the population will happily walk a massive pedestrian walkway the length of an entire sector. How far is sector? What would you consider reasonable walking distances? Something like 30mins regularly, 60-90mins occasionally?

DoreenMichele 7y ago
Real world transit-oriented design in the US routinely uses either 1/4 mile or 1/2 mile for the radius from transit that most people can/will walk. I believe they estimate that it takes 15 minutes to walk a quarter mile and 30 minutes to walk half a mile. Single data point: I'm a pedestrian. I haven't owned a car in over a decade. I'm willing to walk up to 30 minutes regularly and farther occasionally. I also use public transit sometimes.
- asark 7y ago
  30 minutes for a half-mile? Is that the round-trip time or something?
  - silversconfused 7y ago
    Potentially that amount of time would allow carrying some groceries with a screaming toddler in tow.
  - DoreenMichele 7y ago
    No, that's little old ladies in street clothes hobbling as fast as they can. People walking as a mode of transit aren't competing with joggers for who gets there first. These times are for planning purposes. Of course, it's okay if you walk faster than that. But planning departments need to look at "Who will actually walk this?" And the answer is "Ordinary people will walk it if it isn't over 30 minutes, but 15 minutes is better. And that works at these distances." You see the most traffic from establishments within a quarter mile, and some additional traffic within the half mile radius but outside the quarter mile. It drops off steeply outside of the half mile radius.
    - asark 7y ago
      Ah, makes sense. 30 minutes is a very slowly walked city mile for me (25min at a casual, unhurried pace, shaving a couple minutes off that for a 22-23min time with a bit more bounce in the step but still not jogging or even speed-walking) so I figured it was either round-trip or the slowest speed anyone capable of walking anywhere at all would attain—seems it's the latter.
  - deleted 7y ago
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Nasrudith 7y ago
By sector I mean map section - you start with one and can buy more with growth to model city annexing. They aren't small. If it is a flat area of land parcelled out for maximium footprint I think it would be for at least four or five separate emergency services buildings to cover it when fully built. While I get that tolerances vary I think walking marathons is a bit unreasonable for a commute and should probably draw complaints and lower desirability like congestion about things being too far away. It could be a case of differing norms admittedly. Reminds me of one complaint from an online friend in Southern California about how Civilization used an unrealistically dark color for the ocean - she was used to a lighter blue compared to the more northern ocean color chosen. Both colors are realistic but assumptions differed and varying it visually would be confusing for gameplay reasons. Anyway I would probably set the game limit to a fraction of a typical service radius (perhaps specifically setting it based on age and health) or make it more consistent with their sidewalk preference behavior. Like say if the walking distance for children was the radius of a small elementry school but for teens it was half the radius of the high school.