You're confusing me with another poster, dawg. I said nothing about heavy elements. > 'circular dependencies' argument is as meaningless as saying that biologi

You're confusing me with another poster, dawg. I said nothing about heavy elements. > 'circular dependencies' argument is as meaningless as saying that biological organelles are essential to the production of nuclear weapons Lol okay, or we could actually be mature about this and stay within the bounds of the discussion. Yes, it's meaningless when you stretch it that far; but I didn't. These systems are in direct contact with each other and depend on each others' designs to function. That has nothing to do with nuclear weaponry. > We can model weather numerically without modeling each and every molecule because that low-level interaction doesn't really affect fluid dynamics Yes, that's called classical mechanics. We wouldn't rely on QM to describe large-scale weather phenomenon which our current laws of classical thermodynamics encapsulate just fine. But these are all models, not reality itself; If we found out tomorrow a GUT which directly modeled quantum perturbations all the way to a storm in Kansas, with high accuracy, we would use that instead. So referencing our current applications of our current immature physical theories is pointless to this conversation. > You might as well muse about the effects of feline ESP on the weather. You just cannot have an open-minded scientific conversation can you? It just has to be a chance to show your intellectual superiority? Hardly a conducive attitude for progress and breaking the status quo. At one time Newton was considered nuts. At one time Einstein wasn't taken seriously. I'm not Newton or Einstein but neither of their bodies of work were developed having conversations with people like you. More to the point, your derision is ill-formed; Comparing quantum gravitational fluctuations to ESP is just insane. One of them is very much real and proven. We just don't have a GUT to tie it all together.