3 ms·

> From the first google result I came across, "A typical fridge of about 400-500 litres can use around 495kWh of electricity each year". The problem with "typi

by zrm 7y ago

> From the first google result I came across, "A typical fridge of about 400-500 litres can use around 495kWh of electricity each year". The problem with "typical" is that the variance is high. It's even worse than that in hot climates with air conditioning because not only does the refrigerator compressor have to run more, it's pumping heat into a space that then causes the air conditioner to run more. So the average isn't very informative without knowing where you are in relation to it. The difference in the numbers between Colorado and Florida is dramatic. > My phone would also be heating the house with it's inefficiency. Only if you leave it at home instead of taking it with you when you go outside.

brokenmachine 7y ago
>the variance is high More than two orders of magnitude? >Only if you leave it at home instead of taking it with you when you go outside. Well it's charging overnight. My phone is inside the house probably half the time. Honestly this is a really silly argument. If we cared about the extra heating from fridges then we would put them outside in hot climates. If we're talking about a hundred phones versus a fridge, it might be comparable. I take your point about hot climates but I still think any comparison about power usage between a phone and a fridge is ridiculous and draws into question the credibility of the writer.
- zrm 7y ago
  > More than two orders of magnitude? More than two orders of magnitude. You put a refrigerator in an environment where the outside temperature is below its set temperature and it doesn't run at all, or one where 100% of its power use displaces less efficient heating methods and its net consumption is negative. By contrast in a high exterior temperature environment it never stops running and can cost in excess of $1000/year in energy. Or anywhere in the full range in between. > Well it's charging overnight. My phone is inside the house probably half the time. So in a cold climate it has no energy cost when it's indoors, but does the rest of the time. Meanwhile the refrigerator is inside all the time, and is a heat pump which is more efficient at heating than the phone which is equivalent to resistive heating. > Honestly this is a really silly argument. If we cared about the extra heating from fridges then we would put them outside in hot climates. Then the air conditioner runs less but the refrigerator runs more because it's cooling against a higher exterior temperature. That might be more efficient but not by a lot. It's still going to result in high energy consumption. > If we're talking about a hundred phones versus a fridge, it might be comparable. If the question is can a refrigerator use less net power per year than one phone, the answer is yes. Not always, not even usually, but it can actually happen in places like Maine or Canada. > I take your point about hot climates but I still think any comparison about power usage between a phone and a fridge is ridiculous and draws into question the credibility of the writer. It's a widespread rhetorical device in the media. State something which is technically true but generally misleading in support of your point. Then the statement is defensible from a pedantic technical perspective but still causes people who don't know better to come to inaccurate conclusions. It's basically motte and bailey: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Motte_and_bailey https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Motte_and_bailey The problem isn't that the claim is factually inaccurate, it's that it's purposely misleading. It's the difference between incompetence and malice. Not to say that either of them is commendable, but if we're going to be pedantic about things then let's see it through.
  - brokenmachine 7y ago
    Why have a fridge at all if it's in a cool enough environment that it doesn't ever turn on? >The problem isn't that the claim is factually inaccurate, it's that it's purposely misleading. Good point.

by zrm 7y ago

brokenmachine 7y ago

>the variance is high More than two orders of magnitude? >Only if you leave it at home instead of taking it with you when you go outside. Well it's charging overnight. My phone is inside the house probably half the time. Honestly this is a really silly argument. If we cared about the extra heating from fridges then we would put them outside in hot climates. If we're talking about a hundred phones versus a fridge, it might be comparable. I take your point about hot climates but I still think any comparison about power usage between a phone and a fridge is ridiculous and draws into question the credibility of the writer.

zrm 7y ago
> More than two orders of magnitude? More than two orders of magnitude. You put a refrigerator in an environment where the outside temperature is below its set temperature and it doesn't run at all, or one where 100% of its power use displaces less efficient heating methods and its net consumption is negative. By contrast in a high exterior temperature environment it never stops running and can cost in excess of $1000/year in energy. Or anywhere in the full range in between. > Well it's charging overnight. My phone is inside the house probably half the time. So in a cold climate it has no energy cost when it's indoors, but does the rest of the time. Meanwhile the refrigerator is inside all the time, and is a heat pump which is more efficient at heating than the phone which is equivalent to resistive heating. > Honestly this is a really silly argument. If we cared about the extra heating from fridges then we would put them outside in hot climates. Then the air conditioner runs less but the refrigerator runs more because it's cooling against a higher exterior temperature. That might be more efficient but not by a lot. It's still going to result in high energy consumption. > If we're talking about a hundred phones versus a fridge, it might be comparable. If the question is can a refrigerator use less net power per year than one phone, the answer is yes. Not always, not even usually, but it can actually happen in places like Maine or Canada. > I take your point about hot climates but I still think any comparison about power usage between a phone and a fridge is ridiculous and draws into question the credibility of the writer. It's a widespread rhetorical device in the media. State something which is technically true but generally misleading in support of your point. Then the statement is defensible from a pedantic technical perspective but still causes people who don't know better to come to inaccurate conclusions. It's basically motte and bailey: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Motte_and_bailey https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Motte_and_bailey The problem isn't that the claim is factually inaccurate, it's that it's purposely misleading. It's the difference between incompetence and malice. Not to say that either of them is commendable, but if we're going to be pedantic about things then let's see it through.
- brokenmachine 7y ago
  Why have a fridge at all if it's in a cool enough environment that it doesn't ever turn on? >The problem isn't that the claim is factually inaccurate, it's that it's purposely misleading. Good point.