3 ms·

If universal healthcare were to be implemented, they'd probably copy what most other countries do: financing it through taxes paid by employers for each employe

by d--b 7y ago

If universal healthcare were to be implemented, they'd probably copy what most other countries do: financing it through taxes paid by employers for each employee. In France, if you want to spend 120k euros on an employee, you'd pay about 40k towards healthcare and the national retirement plan (and a few other things). The employee gets paid 80k, and then pays income tax on that. Income tax is quite lower than in the US though. All in all, my experience has been that the taxation levels in France are comparable to what you'd pay if you lived in New York City.

tehlike 7y ago
What is the income tax rate in france roughly? In us, federal reaches to 36% or so on highest bracket, and about 10% on states like california. I dont know how much is average, however.
- jkh1 7y ago
  From years ago when I lived in CA, taxes for mid-range income were comparable with France (and Western Europe in general), just itemized differently. The main difference in my opinion was in the quality/quantity of public services one got.
- zokier 7y ago
  I can give some information from Finland, which I imagine is relatively similar to France. For a hypothetical 100k EUR/year salary you'd pay total 40% income tax. I think the top bracket is somewhere north of 50%. To more accurately compare the taxation, I think it is prudent to mention that we pay usually 24% VAT for most goods we purchase, which iirc is bit higher than typical sales taxes in US.
pitaj 7y ago
Taxes on employers are taxes on employees. Employers have set compensations that include the payroll taxes and insurance plans and everything. Why have an extra layer of obscurity when you could just tax income directly? Unnecessary complication that makes doing business harder just so the taxes are hidden from the working class.
- chmod775 7y ago
  Probably because paying that tax is just extra paper work that doesn't have to be done by the employee. So let accounting of your employer figure it out. Income tax on the other hand is something the employee will have to figure out himself, because he may have other income streams. This keeps the work where there is expertise as much as possible.
- cstrasen 7y ago
  I don't know the particular situation in Croatia when it comes to how it cross-finances private healthcare but I would assume that this patient was billed for everything they recieved accordingly and not directly subsidized. Of course there are indirect/externalized cost like the the health worker education system, potentially having hospitals and their equippment set up not to maximize profit but for coverage in the population etc. which this patient now may be freeloading on. There is another perspective though if you consider free movement of labor in the EU (and to some extent globally for highly educated individuals) and the comparatively low salaries for medical professionals in Croatia and other cost-saving medical travel destinations (Hungary, Poland, Thailand, Mexico and others). If the doctors in the country can make an attractive buck on the side doing private practice then this alleviates the pressure to some extent. Especially if it allows the more senior doctors to stay in country and thus continue to train the next generation in med schools and the facilities. Now I don't have a source to back it up but my feeling tells me that it is a net-positive activity for the destination countries. Depending on the scale of business, the foreign money might buy a new machine that other patients can use as well or quality improvements via the international certifications and accreditations. That is not guarantee against potentially canibalising the local social system and could in worst cases lead to a two-class system so i suppose an adequate system to regulate access and subsidize for social fairness is in place where private and public seem equally "healthy". Full disclosure: I work in tech at https://www.medigo.com https://www.medigo.com We help facilitate global medical travel and publish prices to bring the best of capitalism to work in an ethical manner. We also have our own critical illness insurance for global treatment available for employers.

by d--b 7y ago

tehlike 7y ago

What is the income tax rate in france roughly? In us, federal reaches to 36% or so on highest bracket, and about 10% on states like california. I dont know how much is average, however.

jkh1 7y ago
From years ago when I lived in CA, taxes for mid-range income were comparable with France (and Western Europe in general), just itemized differently. The main difference in my opinion was in the quality/quantity of public services one got.
zokier 7y ago
I can give some information from Finland, which I imagine is relatively similar to France. For a hypothetical 100k EUR/year salary you'd pay total 40% income tax. I think the top bracket is somewhere north of 50%. To more accurately compare the taxation, I think it is prudent to mention that we pay usually 24% VAT for most goods we purchase, which iirc is bit higher than typical sales taxes in US.

pitaj 7y ago

Taxes on employers are taxes on employees. Employers have set compensations that include the payroll taxes and insurance plans and everything. Why have an extra layer of obscurity when you could just tax income directly? Unnecessary complication that makes doing business harder just so the taxes are hidden from the working class.

chmod775 7y ago
Probably because paying that tax is just extra paper work that doesn't have to be done by the employee. So let accounting of your employer figure it out. Income tax on the other hand is something the employee will have to figure out himself, because he may have other income streams. This keeps the work where there is expertise as much as possible.
cstrasen 7y ago
I don't know the particular situation in Croatia when it comes to how it cross-finances private healthcare but I would assume that this patient was billed for everything they recieved accordingly and not directly subsidized. Of course there are indirect/externalized cost like the the health worker education system, potentially having hospitals and their equippment set up not to maximize profit but for coverage in the population etc. which this patient now may be freeloading on. There is another perspective though if you consider free movement of labor in the EU (and to some extent globally for highly educated individuals) and the comparatively low salaries for medical professionals in Croatia and other cost-saving medical travel destinations (Hungary, Poland, Thailand, Mexico and others). If the doctors in the country can make an attractive buck on the side doing private practice then this alleviates the pressure to some extent. Especially if it allows the more senior doctors to stay in country and thus continue to train the next generation in med schools and the facilities. Now I don't have a source to back it up but my feeling tells me that it is a net-positive activity for the destination countries. Depending on the scale of business, the foreign money might buy a new machine that other patients can use as well or quality improvements via the international certifications and accreditations. That is not guarantee against potentially canibalising the local social system and could in worst cases lead to a two-class system so i suppose an adequate system to regulate access and subsidize for social fairness is in place where private and public seem equally "healthy". Full disclosure: I work in tech at https://www.medigo.com https://www.medigo.com We help facilitate global medical travel and publish prices to bring the best of capitalism to work in an ethical manner. We also have our own critical illness insurance for global treatment available for employers.