3 ms·

The distinction that is muddied up in the article as well as by many anti-Trump voices is that, while research in academia is published and open and supposed to

by ccrush 7y ago

The distinction that is muddied up in the article as well as by many anti-Trump voices is that, while research in academia is published and open and supposed to be shared, there is a gray area that spills over into commercial research into applications of scientific discoveries where the IP is no longer destined to be openly available, and this research constitutes trades secrets that could be stolen and monetized by foreign entities at the expense of the United States. It is this research that has to be protected, and because of the gray area, many scientists have access to both types of research. It is very unfortunate that the lines are blurred in the interest of attacking a president that wants to keep our country's edge in technological advancements. The article went as far as claiming that Trump's administration might round up Chinese Americans and Chinese aliens as the Japanese were rounded up and sent to internment camps during WW2. The whole point is to make Trump into Hitler at every step, and although this was a more well-written hit piece, it is still click bait and attacks on the Trump administration. I hate that this political climate spills over into scientific articles now. The Chinese have been watched and accused of theft of IP for more than two decades, but it's only now open season on the current administration because the media loves to hate Trump. I'm sick and tired of it. The Chinese have stolen plans for fighter jets, been banned from buying Xeon processors, have been accused of directly copying the AMD Zen chips via masks instead of producing copies based on specs like AMD intended during the sale, and many other such things which either happened or started to happen before Trump took office. To claim that the increased enforcement of laws and regulations against economic espionage as a matter of discrimination against Asians which could eventually lead to WW2-style detention of Chinese nationals and Chinese Americans is purely incendiary nonsense aimed at attacking a President that aims to secure our worldwide economic and technological leadership. Anyone who believes this ought to be ashamed of themselves for falling for this garbage sensationalist journalism.

vkou 7y ago
If this research takes public funding, why the hell are it's proceeds not public? Why am I paying tax dollars to fund the competitive advantage of private firms?
- 18pfsmt 7y ago
  So, if a research project takes $3M in funding, and a private company takes that primary research and spends $300M to produce a derivative product and takes it to market they should not profit? The National Renewable Energy Lab has an entire portfolio it is begging private companies to productize. Taking a product to market is very difficult and raw research is not usable by the populace in most cases.
  - headsoup 7y ago
    This is fine, so long as the $3M funded research is still open and available to anyone to productionise. Is that how it works or are private companies funding some of the 'open' research phase to then privatise (i.e. make secret) the outcomes?
    - Ill_ban_myself 7y ago
      If you spend 300$ million in secret research you can realize 1.5 billion in profit. The numbers for research where you're forced to make the production research public mean your competitors can get to market faster and it may mean an investment of even 3 million isn't worth it. There are some medicines/procedures/devices where this is the only way to make the numbers work to sell it.
Ill_ban_myself 7y ago
I’d like to add that the FBI has been happy to sit idly by and watch the theft of consumer data for more than a decade. Now that they have found a political ally in the trump administration and have something to gain in the way of budget and powers they are suddenly concerned about this, “new heightened threat”
DiogenesKynikos 7y ago
Opposition to anti-China hysteria isn't anti-Trump. If there's anything Trump has done that Democrats have enthusiastically backed, it's his policies against China. Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi have given full-throated support to tariffs against China.[1][2] Even Bernie Sanders has taken a hardline stance, criticizing Joe Biden for being weak on China.[3] To his credit, Biden is one of the few prominent Democrats to have spoken out against the anti-China hysteria.[4] > The Chinese have been watched and accused of theft of IP for more than two decades, but it's only now open season on the current administration because the media loves to hate Trump. I'm sick and tired of it. We must be watching very different media. The media loves to beat up on Trump for other issues, but his measures against China seem to be one of the few things that receive widespread support across the political spectrum. > The Chinese have stolen plans for fighter jets, been banned from buying Xeon processors, have been accused of directly copying the AMD Zen chips via masks instead of producing copies based on specs like AMD intended during the sale, and many other such things which either happened or started to happen before Trump took office. I'm sure the Chinese government could make a very good "national security" argument for stealing fighter-jet plans. That excuse seems to work pretty well for United States government on all sorts of issues. All these claims of IP theft should be tried in court, and if there's something to them, the courts can impose penalties. What is not okay is hysteria and generalized suspicion of Chinese people. What happened at MD Anderson, and has happened elsewhere,[5] looks very ugly. > Anyone who believes this ought to be ashamed of themselves for falling for this garbage sensationalist journalism. I think that quite the opposite, a lot of people are going to feel ashamed of how far this hysteria went, and how innocent people's lives were turned upside-down because of American political angst, just as people felt shame after the Red Scare. 1. https://twitter.com/SenSchumer/status/1125143336837206016 https://twitter.com/SenSchumer/status/1125143336837206016 2. https://pelosi.house.gov/news/press-releases/pelosi-statement-on-trump-administration-s-new-tariffs-on-china https://pelosi.house.gov/news/press-releases/pelosi-statemen... 3. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/02/sanders-slams-bidens-china-trade-stance-in-2020-democratic-primary.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/02/sanders-slams-bidens-china-t... 4. https://www.scmp.com/news/world/united-states-canada/article/3008505/china-going-eat-our-lunch-joe-biden-dismisses https://www.scmp.com/news/world/united-states-canada/article... 5. https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/05/terminated-emory-researcher-disputes-university-s-allegations https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/05/terminated-emory-res...

by ccrush 7y ago

vkou 7y ago

If this research takes public funding, why the hell are it's proceeds not public? Why am I paying tax dollars to fund the competitive advantage of private firms?

18pfsmt 7y ago
So, if a research project takes $3M in funding, and a private company takes that primary research and spends $300M to produce a derivative product and takes it to market they should not profit? The National Renewable Energy Lab has an entire portfolio it is begging private companies to productize. Taking a product to market is very difficult and raw research is not usable by the populace in most cases.
- headsoup 7y ago
  This is fine, so long as the $3M funded research is still open and available to anyone to productionise. Is that how it works or are private companies funding some of the 'open' research phase to then privatise (i.e. make secret) the outcomes?
  - Ill_ban_myself 7y ago
    If you spend 300$ million in secret research you can realize 1.5 billion in profit. The numbers for research where you're forced to make the production research public mean your competitors can get to market faster and it may mean an investment of even 3 million isn't worth it. There are some medicines/procedures/devices where this is the only way to make the numbers work to sell it.

Ill_ban_myself 7y ago

I’d like to add that the FBI has been happy to sit idly by and watch the theft of consumer data for more than a decade. Now that they have found a political ally in the trump administration and have something to gain in the way of budget and powers they are suddenly concerned about this, “new heightened threat”

DiogenesKynikos 7y ago

Opposition to anti-China hysteria isn't anti-Trump. If there's anything Trump has done that Democrats have enthusiastically backed, it's his policies against China. Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi have given full-throated support to tariffs against China.[1][2] Even Bernie Sanders has taken a hardline stance, criticizing Joe Biden for being weak on China.[3] To his credit, Biden is one of the few prominent Democrats to have spoken out against the anti-China hysteria.[4] > The Chinese have been watched and accused of theft of IP for more than two decades, but it's only now open season on the current administration because the media loves to hate Trump. I'm sick and tired of it. We must be watching very different media. The media loves to beat up on Trump for other issues, but his measures against China seem to be one of the few things that receive widespread support across the political spectrum. > The Chinese have stolen plans for fighter jets, been banned from buying Xeon processors, have been accused of directly copying the AMD Zen chips via masks instead of producing copies based on specs like AMD intended during the sale, and many other such things which either happened or started to happen before Trump took office. I'm sure the Chinese government could make a very good "national security" argument for stealing fighter-jet plans. That excuse seems to work pretty well for United States government on all sorts of issues. All these claims of IP theft should be tried in court, and if there's something to them, the courts can impose penalties. What is not okay is hysteria and generalized suspicion of Chinese people. What happened at MD Anderson, and has happened elsewhere,[5] looks very ugly. > Anyone who believes this ought to be ashamed of themselves for falling for this garbage sensationalist journalism. I think that quite the opposite, a lot of people are going to feel ashamed of how far this hysteria went, and how innocent people's lives were turned upside-down because of American political angst, just as people felt shame after the Red Scare. 1. https://twitter.com/SenSchumer/status/1125143336837206016 https://twitter.com/SenSchumer/status/1125143336837206016 2. https://pelosi.house.gov/news/press-releases/pelosi-statement-on-trump-administration-s-new-tariffs-on-china https://pelosi.house.gov/news/press-releases/pelosi-statemen... 3. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/02/sanders-slams-bidens-china-trade-stance-in-2020-democratic-primary.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/02/sanders-slams-bidens-china-t... 4. https://www.scmp.com/news/world/united-states-canada/article/3008505/china-going-eat-our-lunch-joe-biden-dismisses https://www.scmp.com/news/world/united-states-canada/article... 5. https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/05/terminated-emory-researcher-disputes-university-s-allegations https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/05/terminated-emory-res...