6 ms·

While I share your excitement at the wonders of the universe, the language you are using is confusing (borderline misleading). Gravity has very little to do wit

While I share your excitement at the wonders of the universe, the language you are using is confusing (borderline misleading). Gravity has very little to do with any interactions on a scale smaller than an asteroid (and definitely has nothing to do with chemistry or biochemistry). "Dispersal of some kind of quantum entropy" is not really a thing either, unless you interpret it to mean "something cool and sciency" (in which case, yes, unifying gravity and quantum mechanics would be as cool as science gets).

soulofmischief 7y ago
That isn't true. Our entire biological system evolved with gravity in mind; for proof, simply look at what is required of astronauts in deep space to prevent muscular and other cellular atrophy. Whether a similar system is achievable without gravity is out of scope; ours is dependent on it.
- petschge 7y ago
  Ours as mammals maybe. But there is life "as we know" it that works perfectly fine without gravity. Just look at the recent news about fungi growing all over the ISS. No gravity necessary and quite obviously life by our standards.
  - soulofmischief 7y ago
    My initial comment did not focus on biological life, so that's a subpar cop-out.
    - komali2 7y ago
      What format of life is non biological?
      - quakeguy 7y ago
        Ask Conway?
    - nkrisc 7y ago
      This non-biological life you're apparently aware of is the real breakthrough in science.
      - soulofmischief 7y ago
        Drop the snarky attitude. I'm not referring to life at all. I said systems which includes all manner of self-perpetuating and self-correcting systems.
        dang 7y ago
        Would you please stop now? You've crossed into flamewar. That means it's time to stop.
        soulofmischief 7y ago
        Sorry; I didn't mean to flame anyone and will continue to adjust my responses to be more positive. But come on dang, I got thrashed by a bunch of aggressive nonsense that doesn't belong on HN, with several direct attacks against my intelligence. I understand if saying someone has a snarky attitude is too much for HN, but I didn't insult anyone like several of the posters did to me. I wouldn't have even posted the comment in the first place had I anticipated such a response from the community. I felt like I was defending myself the entire time. If I bared a little teeth in the process, I apologize and will continue to strive to improve my communication skills. However, rate-limiting me and not any of the users who were throwing around personal insults doesn't seem fair.
        dang 7y ago
        Believe me, I know the feeling. But in some of these cases, there's a primary commenter who putting energy into the argument long after it has become clear that nothing good will come of it, and that's the user we ask to stop. That's the impression I had of this very large, flamey thread. I can't say I read these comments closely, though, or in many cases at all. We don't have the cycles to do that. If we missed cases of commenters being aggressive or otherwise breaking the site guidelines, that's likely why. You'd be welcome to point them out to us. There's certainly no intention at our end to take sides or scold you more than others.
pharrington 7y ago
Gravity definitely plays a role in biology - blood flow is probably the most straightforward example.
- ceejayoz 7y ago
  Gravity plays a role in Earth biology. It does not necessarily play a role in all biology.
  - ncmncm 7y ago
    Any biology that developed without a gravitational gradient would definitely be affected by finding itself in one. It would probably not be, strictly speaking, biological for long. Technically, it would become "goo".
    - ceejayoz 7y ago
      That humans are damaged by boiling water doesn't mean boiling water plays a role in our everyday biology.
      - soulofmischief 7y ago
        Water does, though. So in this case gravity would be the water and boiling water would be a black hole. One could argue boiling water adds entropy to a system (if its power source comes from outside the system) and that it's worth studying the effects of this added entropy in detail. Like how far do I need to be from the water to maintain homeostasis? Does the heated air around the water create small currents which cause a thunderstorm in Kansas? Testing these kinds of questions is essential to the scientific progress we've made which even allows us to definitively say what water is and isn't.
      - ncmncm 7y ago
        True. But the design of our circulatory system (to the degree we can talk about a "design") certainly is tuned the conventional gravitational gradient. E.g we have one-way valves in our leg veins to help keep blood from all pooling down there. Likewise, our bones are continually restructuring their interiors according to the stresses resulting from experience of weight. I don't know of any evidence that the bone cells involved experience the weight directly, independent of the stress. There is pretty good evidence that they are responding directly, instead, to piezoelectric currents generated by the stress. So, if the bone cells aren't experiencing gravitation, unmediated, their organelles certainly aren't.

soulofmischief 7y ago

That isn't true. Our entire biological system evolved with gravity in mind; for proof, simply look at what is required of astronauts in deep space to prevent muscular and other cellular atrophy. Whether a similar system is achievable without gravity is out of scope; ours is dependent on it.

petschge 7y ago
Ours as mammals maybe. But there is life "as we know" it that works perfectly fine without gravity. Just look at the recent news about fungi growing all over the ISS. No gravity necessary and quite obviously life by our standards.
- soulofmischief 7y ago
  My initial comment did not focus on biological life, so that's a subpar cop-out.
  - komali2 7y ago
    What format of life is non biological?
    - quakeguy 7y ago
      Ask Conway?
  - nkrisc 7y ago
    This non-biological life you're apparently aware of is the real breakthrough in science.
    - soulofmischief 7y ago
      Drop the snarky attitude. I'm not referring to life at all. I said systems which includes all manner of self-perpetuating and self-correcting systems.
      - dang 7y ago
        Would you please stop now? You've crossed into flamewar. That means it's time to stop.
        soulofmischief 7y ago
        Sorry; I didn't mean to flame anyone and will continue to adjust my responses to be more positive. But come on dang, I got thrashed by a bunch of aggressive nonsense that doesn't belong on HN, with several direct attacks against my intelligence. I understand if saying someone has a snarky attitude is too much for HN, but I didn't insult anyone like several of the posters did to me. I wouldn't have even posted the comment in the first place had I anticipated such a response from the community. I felt like I was defending myself the entire time. If I bared a little teeth in the process, I apologize and will continue to strive to improve my communication skills. However, rate-limiting me and not any of the users who were throwing around personal insults doesn't seem fair.
        dang 7y ago
        Believe me, I know the feeling. But in some of these cases, there's a primary commenter who putting energy into the argument long after it has become clear that nothing good will come of it, and that's the user we ask to stop. That's the impression I had of this very large, flamey thread. I can't say I read these comments closely, though, or in many cases at all. We don't have the cycles to do that. If we missed cases of commenters being aggressive or otherwise breaking the site guidelines, that's likely why. You'd be welcome to point them out to us. There's certainly no intention at our end to take sides or scold you more than others.

pharrington 7y ago

Gravity definitely plays a role in biology - blood flow is probably the most straightforward example.

ceejayoz 7y ago
Gravity plays a role in Earth biology. It does not necessarily play a role in all biology.
- ncmncm 7y ago
  Any biology that developed without a gravitational gradient would definitely be affected by finding itself in one. It would probably not be, strictly speaking, biological for long. Technically, it would become "goo".
  - ceejayoz 7y ago
    That humans are damaged by boiling water doesn't mean boiling water plays a role in our everyday biology.
    - soulofmischief 7y ago
      Water does, though. So in this case gravity would be the water and boiling water would be a black hole. One could argue boiling water adds entropy to a system (if its power source comes from outside the system) and that it's worth studying the effects of this added entropy in detail. Like how far do I need to be from the water to maintain homeostasis? Does the heated air around the water create small currents which cause a thunderstorm in Kansas? Testing these kinds of questions is essential to the scientific progress we've made which even allows us to definitively say what water is and isn't.
    - ncmncm 7y ago
      True. But the design of our circulatory system (to the degree we can talk about a "design") certainly is tuned the conventional gravitational gradient. E.g we have one-way valves in our leg veins to help keep blood from all pooling down there. Likewise, our bones are continually restructuring their interiors according to the stresses resulting from experience of weight. I don't know of any evidence that the bone cells involved experience the weight directly, independent of the stress. There is pretty good evidence that they are responding directly, instead, to piezoelectric currents generated by the stress. So, if the bone cells aren't experiencing gravitation, unmediated, their organelles certainly aren't.