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No? Look, you can say things like that, but there is no evidence thus far to back up this being a data play, and every piece of evidence says it is exactly what

No? Look, you can say things like that, but there is no evidence thus far to back up this being a data play, and every piece of evidence says it is exactly what they say it is. - Facebook wants to make more money, they stand to make the most money if this thing works they way they say it will. Surely we can trust their greed? - You don't need a Facebook account to use Libra. - The thing is built so Facebook doesn't have full control, enshrined in Swiss law and math.

soulofmischief 7y ago
I'm using historical evidence by comparing this play to some of Facebook's more notorious previous plays, which overwhelmingly have been shown to be detrimental to the public good while simultaneously deploying Doublespeak in order to caress public opinion and limit public inquiry. Your bullet points all fail to recognize the threat that Facebook (consciously) poses to real alternative currencies which truly are based on altruism and decentralizing financial control. Facebook lifted every play from our book and used our own words against us in order to control the narrative and produce pointless bickering while they progress unhindered. This is evident from the core to the skin, with the most shining example being the name of the coin itself: "Libre coin". Remember the PATRIOT Act? Funny how that turned out have very little to do with true patriotism to the US. I don't mean (and don't wish to) start a conversation about US politics, I simply mean to illustrate my point with another notorious example.
- carlosdp 7y ago
  If I had to trust Facebook's word to trust Libra, I wouldn't. I don't have to though. I can trust Swiss non-profit corporate governance law, math, and the fact that keeping a secret between 28 (or 100+ soon) organizations, with many being non-profits, NGOs, and universities, whose interests do not have clear reason to align otherwise, has never been done before in history.
  - soulofmischief 7y ago
    This carefully sidestepped my main issue, in that Facebook is deliberately choking out currencies which are truly decentralized and in more visionary and technically capable hands, in order to further cement their influence (even if you can argue it's not "just theirs", it's orthogonal to the issue)
    - carlosdp 7y ago
      Because it doesn't make much sense to me. Those truly decentralized currencies are choking out themselves with slow transaction speeds and high transaction fees all on their own. I think true decentralization is super interesting and I'd like to see it happen (I think, there's some unease for me still relative to fiat). I think Ethereum 2.0 with it's proof-of-stake and sharding to combat transaction speeds is super interesting, for example. Libra is an in-between that could bridge today to tomorrow for true decentralization.
      - soulofmischief 7y ago
        > Those truly decentralized currencies are choking out themselves with slow transaction speeds and high transaction fees all on their own That may be the case with Bitcoin/Core, but it's not the case with currencies like Bitcoin Cash. Every payment I make is snappy as hell. Ethereum has some nice ideas but ultimately poor leadership and bad hype management; some of its better ideas, like smart contracts, are being worked into other currencies. Facebook argued Zero was a bridge from no internet to full internet, but then everyone learned that Facebook intended for the "internet" to just mean their own ecosystem.
      - bryan_w 7y ago
        If nothing else, Libra should help get people accustomed to the crypto payment flow (push vs pull)
        carlosdp 7y ago
        Absolutely, I believe Libra can be the gateway into crypto for the general public that we need.

soulofmischief 7y ago

I'm using historical evidence by comparing this play to some of Facebook's more notorious previous plays, which overwhelmingly have been shown to be detrimental to the public good while simultaneously deploying Doublespeak in order to caress public opinion and limit public inquiry. Your bullet points all fail to recognize the threat that Facebook (consciously) poses to real alternative currencies which truly are based on altruism and decentralizing financial control. Facebook lifted every play from our book and used our own words against us in order to control the narrative and produce pointless bickering while they progress unhindered. This is evident from the core to the skin, with the most shining example being the name of the coin itself: "Libre coin". Remember the PATRIOT Act? Funny how that turned out have very little to do with true patriotism to the US. I don't mean (and don't wish to) start a conversation about US politics, I simply mean to illustrate my point with another notorious example.

carlosdp 7y ago
If I had to trust Facebook's word to trust Libra, I wouldn't. I don't have to though. I can trust Swiss non-profit corporate governance law, math, and the fact that keeping a secret between 28 (or 100+ soon) organizations, with many being non-profits, NGOs, and universities, whose interests do not have clear reason to align otherwise, has never been done before in history.
- soulofmischief 7y ago
  This carefully sidestepped my main issue, in that Facebook is deliberately choking out currencies which are truly decentralized and in more visionary and technically capable hands, in order to further cement their influence (even if you can argue it's not "just theirs", it's orthogonal to the issue)
  - carlosdp 7y ago
    Because it doesn't make much sense to me. Those truly decentralized currencies are choking out themselves with slow transaction speeds and high transaction fees all on their own. I think true decentralization is super interesting and I'd like to see it happen (I think, there's some unease for me still relative to fiat). I think Ethereum 2.0 with it's proof-of-stake and sharding to combat transaction speeds is super interesting, for example. Libra is an in-between that could bridge today to tomorrow for true decentralization.
    - soulofmischief 7y ago
      > Those truly decentralized currencies are choking out themselves with slow transaction speeds and high transaction fees all on their own That may be the case with Bitcoin/Core, but it's not the case with currencies like Bitcoin Cash. Every payment I make is snappy as hell. Ethereum has some nice ideas but ultimately poor leadership and bad hype management; some of its better ideas, like smart contracts, are being worked into other currencies. Facebook argued Zero was a bridge from no internet to full internet, but then everyone learned that Facebook intended for the "internet" to just mean their own ecosystem.
    - bryan_w 7y ago
      If nothing else, Libra should help get people accustomed to the crypto payment flow (push vs pull)
      - carlosdp 7y ago
        Absolutely, I believe Libra can be the gateway into crypto for the general public that we need.