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No, it's a problem of how do you order the cool new toy being advertised to you on FB, online, if all you have is physical cash? You can't throw cash at your m

No, it's a problem of how do you order the cool new toy being advertised to you on FB, online, if all you have is physical cash? You can't throw cash at your mobile phone (and 500m+ in these markets have internet and phones, and many have Facebook already).

pjc50 7y ago
So .. how are people going to get Libra? I can see that they're trying to do an MPesa or Wechat pay thing here, but they still need an on ramp.
- carlosdp 7y ago
  You're absolutely right! This is basically trying to beat WeChat to these markets, but in a less-centralized way. These markets already have a lot of internet access and mobile phones, just not a lot of banking. This is Facebook's fastest growing market right now, by far [1]. The Facebook app (and Whatsapp) is the on-ramp, that's why this is a good play for them. They have early advantage, but not because they have control of the currency, they have control of the initial users. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/268136/top-15-countries-based-on-number-of-facebook-users/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/268136/top-15-countries-...
  - pjc50 7y ago
    But what is the last mile plan - you're standing in rural India with a phone and a rupee, how do you turn that into a libra?
    - carlosdp 7y ago
      A local enterprising person starts an "exchange bank" that purchases Libra from an "authorized reseller" that is able to mint it by paying money to the Libra Reserve and sells Libra to locals for cash. There are as many ways for them to make a nice business out of that as there are way to make money as a bank, since it basically is one.
      - pjc50 7y ago
        Right, so all of these people are responsible for the KYC/AML compliance and registration as money transmitters or forex dealers? It's not impossible to build this network, Western Union has it, but they will want a cut.
        carlosdp 7y ago
        Honestly, since we're on HN, I'll point out that this sounds like a potential startup opportunity created for someone to make implementation of compliance easier for these exchanges, at scale.
  - JMTQp8lwXL 7y ago
    It's the fastest growing, but the average ARPU is much less than that of US / Canada.
    - carlosdp 7y ago
      Exactly! Why is that? Part of it is lower income per capita, sure. But Facebook and friends did the math and it turns out you can increase that ARPU quite a bit if you give them a way to actually pay for things online, which they largely lack at the moment!
JMTQp8lwXL 7y ago
Alright, let's say these people do have money to spend. Cryptocurrenices have existed for about a decade. Libra is supposed to solve the problem because it's backed by reserves? There are already tokens out there backed by real currencies (e.g., USDC). Why aren't these people using those? Surely, if they really wanted to buy the things Facebook is advertising, they would've found a way to get these tokens.
- carlosdp 7y ago
  Those other stable-coins don't have the level of capitalization FB is targeting, don't have buy-in from existing payment networks like Libra does (Visa, Mastercard, Paypal, Stripe, etc.), and don't have a massive network of already deployed apps that will surely integrate this (FB app, Whatsapp, etc.).
  - JMTQp8lwXL 7y ago
    I don't necessarily see how that solves the problem, but I concur that these could be valid points (e.g., a higher market cap). Users still need a way to physically exchange their paper currency for Libra. Do employers switch to paying in Libra, so people having something to use within Facebook's platform? Will these people trust Libra more than their paper currency? I'm curious of what the migration strategy could possibly look like for the bankless.
  - carlosdp 7y ago
    @JMTQp8lwXL That's a great question. I'm pretty sure enterprising locals will start up "exchange banks" that interface with larger "authorized resellers" that interface with the Libra Association to turn cash into Libra. So you would go to a local exchange and turn your cash into Libra.
    - JMTQp8lwXL 7y ago
      So, what the bankless need is banking services. This seems like a fairly convoluted way of bringing them to people. Visa, et. al could just set up shop in these areas, but they haven't yet. I guess this comes down to: 1. Are there enterprising individuals that see value in operating local exchanges for Libra <-> local currency? 2. Do Facebook's users in these areas see enough value in obtaining Libra (including the overhead transaction costs of switching to/from Libra) to be worthwhile, for access to goods/services that would otherwise be unavailable via local currency?

pjc50 7y ago

So .. how are people going to get Libra? I can see that they're trying to do an MPesa or Wechat pay thing here, but they still need an on ramp.

carlosdp 7y ago
You're absolutely right! This is basically trying to beat WeChat to these markets, but in a less-centralized way. These markets already have a lot of internet access and mobile phones, just not a lot of banking. This is Facebook's fastest growing market right now, by far [1]. The Facebook app (and Whatsapp) is the on-ramp, that's why this is a good play for them. They have early advantage, but not because they have control of the currency, they have control of the initial users. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/268136/top-15-countries-based-on-number-of-facebook-users/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/268136/top-15-countries-...
- pjc50 7y ago
  But what is the last mile plan - you're standing in rural India with a phone and a rupee, how do you turn that into a libra?
  - carlosdp 7y ago
    A local enterprising person starts an "exchange bank" that purchases Libra from an "authorized reseller" that is able to mint it by paying money to the Libra Reserve and sells Libra to locals for cash. There are as many ways for them to make a nice business out of that as there are way to make money as a bank, since it basically is one.
    - pjc50 7y ago
      Right, so all of these people are responsible for the KYC/AML compliance and registration as money transmitters or forex dealers? It's not impossible to build this network, Western Union has it, but they will want a cut.
      - carlosdp 7y ago
        Honestly, since we're on HN, I'll point out that this sounds like a potential startup opportunity created for someone to make implementation of compliance easier for these exchanges, at scale.
- JMTQp8lwXL 7y ago
  It's the fastest growing, but the average ARPU is much less than that of US / Canada.
  - carlosdp 7y ago
    Exactly! Why is that? Part of it is lower income per capita, sure. But Facebook and friends did the math and it turns out you can increase that ARPU quite a bit if you give them a way to actually pay for things online, which they largely lack at the moment!

JMTQp8lwXL 7y ago

Alright, let's say these people do have money to spend. Cryptocurrenices have existed for about a decade. Libra is supposed to solve the problem because it's backed by reserves? There are already tokens out there backed by real currencies (e.g., USDC). Why aren't these people using those? Surely, if they really wanted to buy the things Facebook is advertising, they would've found a way to get these tokens.

carlosdp 7y ago
Those other stable-coins don't have the level of capitalization FB is targeting, don't have buy-in from existing payment networks like Libra does (Visa, Mastercard, Paypal, Stripe, etc.), and don't have a massive network of already deployed apps that will surely integrate this (FB app, Whatsapp, etc.).
- JMTQp8lwXL 7y ago
  I don't necessarily see how that solves the problem, but I concur that these could be valid points (e.g., a higher market cap). Users still need a way to physically exchange their paper currency for Libra. Do employers switch to paying in Libra, so people having something to use within Facebook's platform? Will these people trust Libra more than their paper currency? I'm curious of what the migration strategy could possibly look like for the bankless.
- carlosdp 7y ago
  @JMTQp8lwXL That's a great question. I'm pretty sure enterprising locals will start up "exchange banks" that interface with larger "authorized resellers" that interface with the Libra Association to turn cash into Libra. So you would go to a local exchange and turn your cash into Libra.
  - JMTQp8lwXL 7y ago
    So, what the bankless need is banking services. This seems like a fairly convoluted way of bringing them to people. Visa, et. al could just set up shop in these areas, but they haven't yet. I guess this comes down to: 1. Are there enterprising individuals that see value in operating local exchanges for Libra <-> local currency? 2. Do Facebook's users in these areas see enough value in obtaining Libra (including the overhead transaction costs of switching to/from Libra) to be worthwhile, for access to goods/services that would otherwise be unavailable via local currency?