4 ms·

I was going to post a similar response but I chose not to after a little research. I think there is a clear difference between engineers at private industries a

by notus 7y ago

I was going to post a similar response but I chose not to after a little research. I think there is a clear difference between engineers at private industries and academics at a public university. Not sure if this is the best comparison. It seems the Trump administration was targeting academics at public universities.... which doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

luckydata 7y ago
They are all part of the same plan. You can't let your enemy infiltrate your academia, it's just bad strategy. If China in the future decides to behave like any normal country I don't see an issue with having cordial relationships again.
- notus 7y ago
  I don't get why an academic researcher in the United States who has contributed to our body of medical research is the enemy.
- NeedMoreTea 7y ago
  So every Chinese person in a US university is the enemy? That seems more than a little sweeping, not to mention inaccurate.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - luckydata 7y ago
    At the moment, it should be assumed that's the case. That's an unfortunate side effect of conflicts.
    - stevens32 7y ago
      Literally racism
      - luckydata 7y ago
        It is literally not. Here is a definition of racism: prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior. I don't believe Chinese nationals are inferior in any way to me. I do believe they are (currently) the enemy of western democracies and more specifically to the country where I currently reside.
        jimclegg 7y ago
        Intellectualizing racism for the sake of obfuscation is very common in Western history, I hope we aren't falling into the same habits again.
        PavlovsCat 7y ago
        Note that you're just saying a generality, without addressing the comment you're replying to at all. Sweeping atrocities under the rug is also very common, then trying to project one's own failure to speak out against them as some kind of moral failing of those who do. > Every powerful state relies on specialists whose task is to show that what the strong do is noble and just and, if the weak suffer, it is their fault. In the West, these specialists are called "intellectuals" and, with marginal exceptions, they fulfill their task with skill and self-righteousness, however outlandish the claims, in this practice that traces back to the origins of recorded history. -- Noam Chomsky Just the fact that this discussion was barely penalized, is bursting with accusations of "hysteria" (that also has tradition) and "racism" and "flamebait", while these for example were very harshly penalized, speaks volumes: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20318279 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20318279 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20315905 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20315905 I think grotesque is a good word for it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsoImQfVsO4&t=33m27s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsoImQfVsO4&t=33m27s > One of the greatest advantages of the totalitarian elites of the twenties and thirties was to turn any statement of fact into a question of motive. -- Hannah Arendt, "The Origins of Totalitarianism" This is exactly the tactic, and the pattern in hundreds of HN discussions: make accusations one doesn't need to prove, and the accused cannot disprove. "You just say this because you hate X", or "you don't say this because you think it's true, and despite it possibly offending someone, no... this is flamebait, my inability to address your argument on its merits is actually your intention". But of course it's verboten to be offended by any of that.
    - EastToWest 7y ago
      Unfortunate side effect? Do you realize some of those Chinese are naturalized US citizens like you? Do you realize that you're advocating treating a portion of your fellow citizens as enemy or second-class citizens? I hope your country of origin will never be at odds with US. (Expletive deleted)

by notus 7y ago

luckydata 7y ago

They are all part of the same plan. You can't let your enemy infiltrate your academia, it's just bad strategy. If China in the future decides to behave like any normal country I don't see an issue with having cordial relationships again.

notus 7y ago
I don't get why an academic researcher in the United States who has contributed to our body of medical research is the enemy.
NeedMoreTea 7y ago
So every Chinese person in a US university is the enemy? That seems more than a little sweeping, not to mention inaccurate.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- luckydata 7y ago
  At the moment, it should be assumed that's the case. That's an unfortunate side effect of conflicts.
  - stevens32 7y ago
    Literally racism
    - luckydata 7y ago
      It is literally not. Here is a definition of racism: prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior. I don't believe Chinese nationals are inferior in any way to me. I do believe they are (currently) the enemy of western democracies and more specifically to the country where I currently reside.
      - jimclegg 7y ago
        Intellectualizing racism for the sake of obfuscation is very common in Western history, I hope we aren't falling into the same habits again.
        PavlovsCat 7y ago
        Note that you're just saying a generality, without addressing the comment you're replying to at all. Sweeping atrocities under the rug is also very common, then trying to project one's own failure to speak out against them as some kind of moral failing of those who do. > Every powerful state relies on specialists whose task is to show that what the strong do is noble and just and, if the weak suffer, it is their fault. In the West, these specialists are called "intellectuals" and, with marginal exceptions, they fulfill their task with skill and self-righteousness, however outlandish the claims, in this practice that traces back to the origins of recorded history. -- Noam Chomsky Just the fact that this discussion was barely penalized, is bursting with accusations of "hysteria" (that also has tradition) and "racism" and "flamebait", while these for example were very harshly penalized, speaks volumes: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20318279 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20318279 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20315905 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20315905 I think grotesque is a good word for it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsoImQfVsO4&t=33m27s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsoImQfVsO4&t=33m27s > One of the greatest advantages of the totalitarian elites of the twenties and thirties was to turn any statement of fact into a question of motive. -- Hannah Arendt, "The Origins of Totalitarianism" This is exactly the tactic, and the pattern in hundreds of HN discussions: make accusations one doesn't need to prove, and the accused cannot disprove. "You just say this because you hate X", or "you don't say this because you think it's true, and despite it possibly offending someone, no... this is flamebait, my inability to address your argument on its merits is actually your intention". But of course it's verboten to be offended by any of that.
  - EastToWest 7y ago
    Unfortunate side effect? Do you realize some of those Chinese are naturalized US citizens like you? Do you realize that you're advocating treating a portion of your fellow citizens as enemy or second-class citizens? I hope your country of origin will never be at odds with US. (Expletive deleted)