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>historically women have been on the receiving end of physical violence from men far, far more often than vice versa and were told to suffer in silence. Histor

>historically women have been on the receiving end of physical violence from men far, far more often than vice versa and were told to suffer in silence. Historically, men have been on the receiving end of violence far, far more than women. Far more likely to be assaulted/murdered on the street, convicted for a crime they did not commit, or drafted into and killed in war.

untog 7y ago
What's your actual point here? That domestic violence shouldn't be discussed because men go to war?
- 50656E6973 7y ago
  >They still suffer far more You're creating a false dichotomy by claiming women suffer more from physical violence from men. History and context are important for understanding reality as a whole (as best as we can). In all honesty we should be framing these issues as human problems. Creating false dichotomies, dividing men against women, and then trying to play victim olympics under false pretenses is disingenuous not helpful to humanity.
  - untog 7y ago
    And you're selectively quoting me. I did not say "women suffer far more", I said "women suffer more from violence by men than vice versa". If you're going to debate a quote at least be honest about it. Framing things as human problems is a lovely concept, but disparities exist. Ignoring them by labeling them a "false dichotomy" and talking about "victim olympics" does not help solve any issues. You can't solve an issue without identifying its causes. Otherwise we end up asking "how do we solve violence as a human problem" and guess what, nothing ever gets solved.
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    - 50656E6973 7y ago
      >You can't solve an issue without identifying its causes. Agreed. How are the fundamental causes of domestic violence different from the fundamental causes of all other types of physical violence, in your opinion?
      - untog 7y ago
        They're often rooted in the lack of emotional tools us men are given to process anger. We are raised to be "strong" and talking about your feelings is seen as weak. So things bottle up until they explode, often in the direction of domestic partners because they are closest. Particularly in situations out of our control... it's even been shown in studies that reports of domestic violence increase when a local sports team loses a game. By comparison the violence that happens when a person gets mugged is wrapped up in the act of the mugging. Rarely is anyone doing it for fun, they're doing it because they need money. Being convicted for a crime you didn't commit has nothing to do with violence at all. And men being sent off to war... well, I'll spare the pages long post about nation states, but the point is that the cause of that isn't meaningfully similar to that of domestic violence.
        50656E6973 7y ago
        >often rooted in the lack of emotional tools us men are given to process anger. We are raised to be "strong" and talking about your feelings is seen as weak Mental/emotional repression and the evolutionary need to appear strong and act on anger with physical violence is influential in many/most types of violence: domestic violence, school yard bullying, common assault, gang violence, police violence, and military violence. Could it be that the root cause(s) of most types of violence -- whether on a micro scale (domestic assault) or a macro scale (war) -- are interrelated?
- rapind 7y ago
  I think he was rebutting the point he quoted. Don't forget jail too. There's more men on men violence (and rape) than men on women because of the horrendous prison system and how society couldn't care less. Doesn't make either more acceptable, but it would be nice if prison violence got a little more air time.
  - untog 7y ago
    Right, but it all just ends being whataboutism. Effectively we're saying "sure, domestic violence exists, but what about prison violence? What about war?". They're not invalid points but the effect is to grind conversation to a halt. We can talk about, and tackle prison violence. We can talk about, and tack domestic violence. But refusing to consider one until the other is also factored in just means nothing ever happens. They don't depend upon each other. We can work on both, independently.
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untog 7y ago

What's your actual point here? That domestic violence shouldn't be discussed because men go to war?

50656E6973 7y ago
>They still suffer far more You're creating a false dichotomy by claiming women suffer more from physical violence from men. History and context are important for understanding reality as a whole (as best as we can). In all honesty we should be framing these issues as human problems. Creating false dichotomies, dividing men against women, and then trying to play victim olympics under false pretenses is disingenuous not helpful to humanity.
- untog 7y ago
  And you're selectively quoting me. I did not say "women suffer far more", I said "women suffer more from violence by men than vice versa". If you're going to debate a quote at least be honest about it. Framing things as human problems is a lovely concept, but disparities exist. Ignoring them by labeling them a "false dichotomy" and talking about "victim olympics" does not help solve any issues. You can't solve an issue without identifying its causes. Otherwise we end up asking "how do we solve violence as a human problem" and guess what, nothing ever gets solved.
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  - 50656E6973 7y ago
    >You can't solve an issue without identifying its causes. Agreed. How are the fundamental causes of domestic violence different from the fundamental causes of all other types of physical violence, in your opinion?
    - untog 7y ago
      They're often rooted in the lack of emotional tools us men are given to process anger. We are raised to be "strong" and talking about your feelings is seen as weak. So things bottle up until they explode, often in the direction of domestic partners because they are closest. Particularly in situations out of our control... it's even been shown in studies that reports of domestic violence increase when a local sports team loses a game. By comparison the violence that happens when a person gets mugged is wrapped up in the act of the mugging. Rarely is anyone doing it for fun, they're doing it because they need money. Being convicted for a crime you didn't commit has nothing to do with violence at all. And men being sent off to war... well, I'll spare the pages long post about nation states, but the point is that the cause of that isn't meaningfully similar to that of domestic violence.
      - 50656E6973 7y ago
        >often rooted in the lack of emotional tools us men are given to process anger. We are raised to be "strong" and talking about your feelings is seen as weak Mental/emotional repression and the evolutionary need to appear strong and act on anger with physical violence is influential in many/most types of violence: domestic violence, school yard bullying, common assault, gang violence, police violence, and military violence. Could it be that the root cause(s) of most types of violence -- whether on a micro scale (domestic assault) or a macro scale (war) -- are interrelated?
rapind 7y ago
I think he was rebutting the point he quoted. Don't forget jail too. There's more men on men violence (and rape) than men on women because of the horrendous prison system and how society couldn't care less. Doesn't make either more acceptable, but it would be nice if prison violence got a little more air time.
- untog 7y ago
  Right, but it all just ends being whataboutism. Effectively we're saying "sure, domestic violence exists, but what about prison violence? What about war?". They're not invalid points but the effect is to grind conversation to a halt. We can talk about, and tackle prison violence. We can talk about, and tack domestic violence. But refusing to consider one until the other is also factored in just means nothing ever happens. They don't depend upon each other. We can work on both, independently.
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