4 ms·

That's why it is random. Solid engineering implies that you estimate how much effect this measure will have. Note that the report says 'Incidence rates provide

by phicoh 7y ago

That's why it is random. Solid engineering implies that you estimate how much effect this measure will have. Note that the report says 'Incidence rates provided in this report should be interpreted with caution due to the small sample size.' If this was solid engineering, there would minimum noise requirements to help people with reduced vision. This is similar to having a man with a flag walk in front of car. Because those horseless vehicles are just scary.

Retric 7y ago
I was intentionally linking to an early study. There are plenty of studies looking into this issue and more than enough data to determine it’s a real problem. In fact many hybrids have included such systems for years. Here is a more recent example with far more data. https://www.iihs.org/media/0465243f-89d5-4fa7-95c1-367f1e2c1c0a/-1115601825/HLDI%20Research/Bulletins/hldi_bulletin_28.12.pdf https://www.iihs.org/media/0465243f-89d5-4fa7-95c1-367f1e2c1... Overall it’s on the order of hundreds more deaths in the US alone assuming every car becomes a hybrid or electric vehicle without these systems.
- nitrogen 7y ago
  And even without deaths it's far more comfortable as a pedestrian if I can hear a car coming before I turn my head. Situational awareness as another comment mentioned elsewhere relies on all of the senses. I for one would like more sound from e-scooters; been almost hit a few times.
  - brokenmachine 7y ago
    Personally I'd rather have the environment as free of noise pollution as possible, and I'll just look both ways before I cross the street.
    - Retric 7y ago
      Meanwhile, parking lots turn into a deadly game of frogger... The average reaction time for humans is 0.25 seconds to a visual stimulus, 0.17 for an audio stimulus. You’re crossing at a crosswalk past stopped cars and someone takes their foot off the break, you will dodge faster with engine noises. And, it’s not just about crossing the street, knowing a car is on changes how people walk past seemingly parked cars. Worse, saying you will just get this right every single time you do it, however you only need to make a mistake once to die.
      - brokenmachine 7y ago
        I don't want the noise and I don't agree it's necessary. A claimed 0.08 seconds improved reaction time (were you implying that was a lot? because a slow-moving car doesn't go far in 0.08s) is not enough reason in my opinion to have what are bound to be deafening beepers everywhere. So noise! much safety! You are proposing a ridiculous noisy dystopia. Imagine a carpark full of cars loudly beeping at all times! Cars should have sensors like parking sensors for when they're moving slowly, or flashing lights, or literally any other solution than more meaningless noise in our already much too noisy environment. You are overstating the danger with your, "you only need to make a mistake once to die" alarmism.
- zaroth 7y ago
  The study you linked is pretty interesting. They attempt to control for the variables by only studying cars with highly similar models of hybrid and non-hybrid variety. They show a 17% increase in the number of bodily injury claims without a corresponding property damage claim. They do disclaim that they can’t actually tell from this data if a pedestrian was actually involved. But I wonder if there’s one thing missing here. Hybrids have a lot higher low-end torque. I think the definitive study would be on a hybrid car with and without the noise, and I’m not sure if they ever tried to do that for the Leaf?

by phicoh 7y ago

Retric 7y ago

I was intentionally linking to an early study. There are plenty of studies looking into this issue and more than enough data to determine it’s a real problem. In fact many hybrids have included such systems for years. Here is a more recent example with far more data. https://www.iihs.org/media/0465243f-89d5-4fa7-95c1-367f1e2c1c0a/-1115601825/HLDI%20Research/Bulletins/hldi_bulletin_28.12.pdf https://www.iihs.org/media/0465243f-89d5-4fa7-95c1-367f1e2c1... Overall it’s on the order of hundreds more deaths in the US alone assuming every car becomes a hybrid or electric vehicle without these systems.

nitrogen 7y ago
And even without deaths it's far more comfortable as a pedestrian if I can hear a car coming before I turn my head. Situational awareness as another comment mentioned elsewhere relies on all of the senses. I for one would like more sound from e-scooters; been almost hit a few times.
- brokenmachine 7y ago
  Personally I'd rather have the environment as free of noise pollution as possible, and I'll just look both ways before I cross the street.
  - Retric 7y ago
    Meanwhile, parking lots turn into a deadly game of frogger... The average reaction time for humans is 0.25 seconds to a visual stimulus, 0.17 for an audio stimulus. You’re crossing at a crosswalk past stopped cars and someone takes their foot off the break, you will dodge faster with engine noises. And, it’s not just about crossing the street, knowing a car is on changes how people walk past seemingly parked cars. Worse, saying you will just get this right every single time you do it, however you only need to make a mistake once to die.
    - brokenmachine 7y ago
      I don't want the noise and I don't agree it's necessary. A claimed 0.08 seconds improved reaction time (were you implying that was a lot? because a slow-moving car doesn't go far in 0.08s) is not enough reason in my opinion to have what are bound to be deafening beepers everywhere. So noise! much safety! You are proposing a ridiculous noisy dystopia. Imagine a carpark full of cars loudly beeping at all times! Cars should have sensors like parking sensors for when they're moving slowly, or flashing lights, or literally any other solution than more meaningless noise in our already much too noisy environment. You are overstating the danger with your, "you only need to make a mistake once to die" alarmism.
zaroth 7y ago
The study you linked is pretty interesting. They attempt to control for the variables by only studying cars with highly similar models of hybrid and non-hybrid variety. They show a 17% increase in the number of bodily injury claims without a corresponding property damage claim. They do disclaim that they can’t actually tell from this data if a pedestrian was actually involved. But I wonder if there’s one thing missing here. Hybrids have a lot higher low-end torque. I think the definitive study would be on a hybrid car with and without the noise, and I’m not sure if they ever tried to do that for the Leaf?