6 ms·

In practically all developed countries, agriculture is wholly dependent on subsidies financed with taxes. The price of alimentary products in the supermarket do

In practically all developed countries, agriculture is wholly dependent on subsidies financed with taxes. The price of alimentary products in the supermarket does not reflect the true cost of production. This, coupled with countries like China subsidising exports, leads to a "race to the bottom" situation in which there's constant pressure to drive prices down. One way to reduce waste would be to stop subsidising agriculture on a global level. This might be also be accompanied by raising the price of fuel and electricity. Before screaming bloody murder and downvoting, please consider the following: - roughly 50% of food in the US goes to waste [1]. Meaning you already pay double what you think you pay. - About 40% of people in the US are obese [2]. We're eating too much. - Modern agriculture is an environmentally destructive practice [3]. Reducing food consumption can reduce its environmental impact. - We have all become used to abundance - in practically all domains of life: water, food, energy, travel, communication. We have become desensitised to the real value of things, we have no conception of the externalities involved in producing them, and pass our lives on an infinite binge of blind consumption. On a personal level, each of us can make the transition to consuming food in a more reasonable and sober manner. Finally, educating people about food waste is not enough. What's needed is rather a coordinated effort to move to a new model where people consume what they physically need, rather than indulging momentary craving. [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/07/american-food-waste/491513/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/07/america... [2] https://web.archive.org/web/20190629233657/https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/adult.html https://web.archive.org/web/20190629233657/https://www.cdc.g... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_agriculture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_agricu...

qrbLPHiKpiux 7y ago
Add to what you said, we're eating too much sugar causing a health crisis no one's talking about (from eating sugar).
- electriclove 7y ago
  So true! The sugar addiction is real and I just don't know how to kick it. For me, it is twisted in with my caffeine addiction and I struggle trying to ward off potential withdrawal migraines with wanting to stop caffeine and also wanting to make it through life/work.
  - qrbLPHiKpiux 7y ago
    May I make a starting recommendation - start weaning yourself off of it. Start with your coffee. Work yourself to decaf, start with 3/4 regular, 1/4 decaf. Then, 1/2 sugar, and try 1/2 stevia. It's tough to do it cold-turkey.
    - fosco 7y ago
      If I can suggest an alternative, reduce the sugar first in coffee and start switching to black without anything else in it. I think sugar is far worse than caffeine including alternatives like Stevia. Decaf on the other hand depending on how it was made into decaf can also be harmful. Kick the sugar first. I replaced it with tarts like green apples and other fruits and not only lost weight but artificial sugar does not even taste good to me anymore. On a side note I'm never typi g from a mobile phone again I'm sick of.typos and I'm done fixing them from here, this mobile phone bottleneck is terrible.
      - foxhop 7y ago
        Same. : ) Typing on a mobile phone is still really bad. I'm not just being a "old person". Key boards are way better, and I'm surprise that we have not had much innovation in this relm. It's almost like the powers that be, want to keep mobile and tablet as consumption devices and not a creation devices. It's really hard to produce meaningful data with a phone... Basically bottlenecked from keyboard and mouse, to just mouse...
  - badpun 7y ago
    Reducing workload and stress levels worked for me. I am only dependant on coffeine when I need to work a lot, and on sugar when I need to artificially cheer myself up.
electriclove 7y ago
I agree with your sentiment that we are dealing with an infinite binge of blind consumption. It is an interesting thought but in some sense raising prices isn't going to stop the addict.
cyrksoft 7y ago
Obesity is not eating too much, it's eating bad, highly processed foods. I doubt somebody can get obese by eating too much salad or chicken. It's not as simple as forcing everybody to higher prices or starving them.
- fortran77 7y ago
  It's simply eating more calories than a person needs in a day. Of course, that's often easier to do with "highly processed foods", but the 33% of the U.S. population that's a healthy weight eat all sorts of things (as do I).
  - hirundo 7y ago
    > It's simply eating more calories than a person needs in a day. This is true but without explaining the issue. Gary Taubes compared it to asking why a theater is over capacity, and getting the answer "because more people entered than exited." Well, yes, but why? You're at a healthy weight because you don't eat more calories than you need in a day. I'm obese because I do. But those facts don't explain why you don't and I do. It probably isn't because you count calories more diligently.
    - DiabloD3 7y ago
      I've actually personally proven calorie counting makes zero sense in the context that healthcare has tried to phrase it. It isn't that you eat too many calories, its that your body hoards to many. Chronic exercise "helps" in the short term, but just causes long term damage, and your body just makes you want to eat more in response. The trick is not how much you eat, but what you eat. Same with carbs, not how much, but what. Stick with nutrient dense foods (which pretty much means whole, fresh, goods, despite how much that is associated with a certain crowd), and your body just finally lets go and lets you lose weight. For me, I went strictly Paleo for a year, not even low carb. Over a year and a half, I went from 340 to 183. I made sure I didn't decrease caloric intake (~2000 calories a day), nor increase caloric burn. According to common (but woefully incorrect) knowledge, I'm clearly lying, and I still weigh 340, yet, I don't. Stripping out grains, refined sugars, dairy, legumes, refined oils, other refined products, and replacing it with fresh meat, vegs, moderate fruit, coconut and olive oil, while not decreasing calories, still helped me lose weight. Healthcare sets people up to fail and then blames the victim. Its nuts.
galangalalgol 7y ago
It isn't the foods that are making us obese that go to waste. Processed foods don't go bad like kale and beets. I am still in favor of you plan.
Mountain_Skies 7y ago
Agriculture is subsidized for many reasons but one of the main reasons is national security. A nation that depends on imports to feed itself is beholden to whoever exports to it. Likewise a nation that exports food can exert control over those countries dependent on it for food.
- superpermutat0r 7y ago
  Well, this should be true, but subsidies go to the luxury foods, mostly animal products, not the most efficient nutrient to cost ratio foods with minimal externalities. Humans do not eat corn, wheat or soy in coming out of current production levels.
  - mynegation 7y ago
    If we are to go with “national security” explanation, infantry and navy are mostly big men who (for right or wrong reasons) prefer meat in their diet.
    - svachalek 7y ago
      The national security argument is not about feeding the army what they like to eat, it's about the literal survival of the common people.
      - mynegation 7y ago
        I understand that. I was making an argument why government would want to keep meat production subsidized.
  - tomatotomato37 7y ago
    National security isn't just protecting from outside, it's also protecting from within. Stabilizing society via bread and circus is a valid realpolitik strategy, and what better way to do it than boosting the production of food to post-scarcity levels
  - 7y ago
vollmarj 7y ago
Can you provide references to the subsidies you mention? I think you will find that this is a common misconception with only some truth to it. I hear often that US agriculture is subsidized, but never hear specifics. I'm genuinely curious where people get this impression. The majority of ag subsidies are not given to farmers for growing things. Crop insurance is subsidized, but that doesn't necessarily lead to overproduction as is only really kicks in when conditions are very poor. Conservation programs (to NOT farm land) are also subsidized. This again doesn't encourage over production. There are many things that could be improved in modern agriculture, but my view is that subsidies have little to do with our largest problems.
- alasdair_ 7y ago
  Crop insurance pays out at least five billion dollars a year in the US so it’s not solely “when conditions are very poor” There are other hidden subsidied, such as tarriffs on sugarcane meaning most fructose in the us comes from corn. A tarriff on a competitor is economically the same as a subsidy.
- ciconia 7y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agricultural_subsidy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agricultural_subsidy
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- packet_nerd 7y ago
  I'd always heard that dairy gets quite a lot of subsidies, including from advertising like the "Got milk?" ads. A quick search seems to support this. It'd be interesting to hear from someone who's dug into this a lot more. https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/dairy-subsidies-government-farm-programs-surplus-cheese/ https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/dairy-subsidie... https://qz.com/944630/the-us-government-program-behind-the-got-milk-campaign-attacked-vegan-mayo-and-is-now-under-congressional-scrutiny/ https://qz.com/944630/the-us-government-program-behind-the-g... https://www.idausa.org/government-meat-dairy-advertising/ https://www.idausa.org/government-meat-dairy-advertising/
jolmg 7y ago
> About 40% of people in the US are obese [2]. We're eating too much. Does the obesity really come from eating too much? Or does it come from eating with disproportionate amounts of fat and sugar? Also, I think you can factor in things like how the people in the US need to drive much more than people in other countries because everything is so much further apart. It's not as practical to walk.

qrbLPHiKpiux 7y ago

Add to what you said, we're eating too much sugar causing a health crisis no one's talking about (from eating sugar).

electriclove 7y ago
So true! The sugar addiction is real and I just don't know how to kick it. For me, it is twisted in with my caffeine addiction and I struggle trying to ward off potential withdrawal migraines with wanting to stop caffeine and also wanting to make it through life/work.
- qrbLPHiKpiux 7y ago
  May I make a starting recommendation - start weaning yourself off of it. Start with your coffee. Work yourself to decaf, start with 3/4 regular, 1/4 decaf. Then, 1/2 sugar, and try 1/2 stevia. It's tough to do it cold-turkey.
  - fosco 7y ago
    If I can suggest an alternative, reduce the sugar first in coffee and start switching to black without anything else in it. I think sugar is far worse than caffeine including alternatives like Stevia. Decaf on the other hand depending on how it was made into decaf can also be harmful. Kick the sugar first. I replaced it with tarts like green apples and other fruits and not only lost weight but artificial sugar does not even taste good to me anymore. On a side note I'm never typi g from a mobile phone again I'm sick of.typos and I'm done fixing them from here, this mobile phone bottleneck is terrible.
    - foxhop 7y ago
      Same. : ) Typing on a mobile phone is still really bad. I'm not just being a "old person". Key boards are way better, and I'm surprise that we have not had much innovation in this relm. It's almost like the powers that be, want to keep mobile and tablet as consumption devices and not a creation devices. It's really hard to produce meaningful data with a phone... Basically bottlenecked from keyboard and mouse, to just mouse...
- badpun 7y ago
  Reducing workload and stress levels worked for me. I am only dependant on coffeine when I need to work a lot, and on sugar when I need to artificially cheer myself up.

electriclove 7y ago

I agree with your sentiment that we are dealing with an infinite binge of blind consumption. It is an interesting thought but in some sense raising prices isn't going to stop the addict.

cyrksoft 7y ago

Obesity is not eating too much, it's eating bad, highly processed foods. I doubt somebody can get obese by eating too much salad or chicken. It's not as simple as forcing everybody to higher prices or starving them.

fortran77 7y ago
It's simply eating more calories than a person needs in a day. Of course, that's often easier to do with "highly processed foods", but the 33% of the U.S. population that's a healthy weight eat all sorts of things (as do I).
- hirundo 7y ago
  > It's simply eating more calories than a person needs in a day. This is true but without explaining the issue. Gary Taubes compared it to asking why a theater is over capacity, and getting the answer "because more people entered than exited." Well, yes, but why? You're at a healthy weight because you don't eat more calories than you need in a day. I'm obese because I do. But those facts don't explain why you don't and I do. It probably isn't because you count calories more diligently.
  - DiabloD3 7y ago
    I've actually personally proven calorie counting makes zero sense in the context that healthcare has tried to phrase it. It isn't that you eat too many calories, its that your body hoards to many. Chronic exercise "helps" in the short term, but just causes long term damage, and your body just makes you want to eat more in response. The trick is not how much you eat, but what you eat. Same with carbs, not how much, but what. Stick with nutrient dense foods (which pretty much means whole, fresh, goods, despite how much that is associated with a certain crowd), and your body just finally lets go and lets you lose weight. For me, I went strictly Paleo for a year, not even low carb. Over a year and a half, I went from 340 to 183. I made sure I didn't decrease caloric intake (~2000 calories a day), nor increase caloric burn. According to common (but woefully incorrect) knowledge, I'm clearly lying, and I still weigh 340, yet, I don't. Stripping out grains, refined sugars, dairy, legumes, refined oils, other refined products, and replacing it with fresh meat, vegs, moderate fruit, coconut and olive oil, while not decreasing calories, still helped me lose weight. Healthcare sets people up to fail and then blames the victim. Its nuts.

galangalalgol 7y ago

It isn't the foods that are making us obese that go to waste. Processed foods don't go bad like kale and beets. I am still in favor of you plan.

Mountain_Skies 7y ago

Agriculture is subsidized for many reasons but one of the main reasons is national security. A nation that depends on imports to feed itself is beholden to whoever exports to it. Likewise a nation that exports food can exert control over those countries dependent on it for food.

superpermutat0r 7y ago
Well, this should be true, but subsidies go to the luxury foods, mostly animal products, not the most efficient nutrient to cost ratio foods with minimal externalities. Humans do not eat corn, wheat or soy in coming out of current production levels.
- mynegation 7y ago
  If we are to go with “national security” explanation, infantry and navy are mostly big men who (for right or wrong reasons) prefer meat in their diet.
  - svachalek 7y ago
    The national security argument is not about feeding the army what they like to eat, it's about the literal survival of the common people.
    - mynegation 7y ago
      I understand that. I was making an argument why government would want to keep meat production subsidized.
- tomatotomato37 7y ago
  National security isn't just protecting from outside, it's also protecting from within. Stabilizing society via bread and circus is a valid realpolitik strategy, and what better way to do it than boosting the production of food to post-scarcity levels
- 7y ago

vollmarj 7y ago

Can you provide references to the subsidies you mention? I think you will find that this is a common misconception with only some truth to it. I hear often that US agriculture is subsidized, but never hear specifics. I'm genuinely curious where people get this impression. The majority of ag subsidies are not given to farmers for growing things. Crop insurance is subsidized, but that doesn't necessarily lead to overproduction as is only really kicks in when conditions are very poor. Conservation programs (to NOT farm land) are also subsidized. This again doesn't encourage over production. There are many things that could be improved in modern agriculture, but my view is that subsidies have little to do with our largest problems.

alasdair_ 7y ago
Crop insurance pays out at least five billion dollars a year in the US so it’s not solely “when conditions are very poor” There are other hidden subsidied, such as tarriffs on sugarcane meaning most fructose in the us comes from corn. A tarriff on a competitor is economically the same as a subsidy.
ciconia 7y ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agricultural_subsidy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agricultural_subsidy
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
packet_nerd 7y ago
I'd always heard that dairy gets quite a lot of subsidies, including from advertising like the "Got milk?" ads. A quick search seems to support this. It'd be interesting to hear from someone who's dug into this a lot more. https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/dairy-subsidies-government-farm-programs-surplus-cheese/ https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/dairy-subsidie... https://qz.com/944630/the-us-government-program-behind-the-got-milk-campaign-attacked-vegan-mayo-and-is-now-under-congressional-scrutiny/ https://qz.com/944630/the-us-government-program-behind-the-g... https://www.idausa.org/government-meat-dairy-advertising/ https://www.idausa.org/government-meat-dairy-advertising/

jolmg 7y ago

> About 40% of people in the US are obese [2]. We're eating too much. Does the obesity really come from eating too much? Or does it come from eating with disproportionate amounts of fat and sugar? Also, I think you can factor in things like how the people in the US need to drive much more than people in other countries because everything is so much further apart. It's not as practical to walk.