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Rising energy usage is an invariant. If it weren't for an increased demand for air conditioning, it would be for an an increased demand in other areas - transpo

Rising energy usage is an invariant. If it weren't for an increased demand for air conditioning, it would be for an an increased demand in other areas - transportation, computing, desalination, etc. The answer is not to try to stop development - the answer is to cleanse the sources of electricity.

redwall_hp 7y ago
If electric cars become more popular, they're going to dwarf any other household use anyway. A Tesla's batteries already hold more energy than the average household uses in a weekend.
- wumms 7y ago
  I'd estimate a driving range with the electricity consumption of an average 4-person household (4000 kWh/year in Germany) of at least 20k km (@ 20 kWh/100 km). So that would roughly double the household use. Add another 4000 kwh for heating around 50-150 m² (90-25 kWh/m² per year for a modern home in Germany). In Germany you can use about 1.000 kWh/kWp per year from the sun, so one would need to install 60 m² of panels @ 20% efficiency for that. The main problem is storage for the winter - or where am I wrong?
notacoward 7y ago
> The answer is not to try to stop development "Stop development" is a bit of an alarmist phrase. Few want that. Also, reducing demand in specific areas is still beneficial even if overall demand continues to increase. There's no reason not to address both demand and supply.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- leereeves 7y ago
  How do you propose to "address demand"?
  - notacoward 7y ago
    Tough one. Let me think a moment. Hey, didn't I just read an article about how air conditioning represented a significant amount of unnecessary energy use? Crazy idea: let's reduce that. While we're at it, maybe we could also do things to reduce the number of cars on the road, or increase efficiency. We could build stuff using materials and processes that are less energy-intensive. There are a hundred other ways we could reduce the number of kWh used per day, separately from changing how those kWh are generated.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - solatic 7y ago
      > Crazy idea: let's reduce that. If you lived in a hot climate (like India, which is one of the countries TFA referred to as a source of high future demand), then you'd understand just how crazy of an idea that is. (side note: your profile links to a site with a bio claiming that you live in Massachusetts. I rest my case.) Look, it's not that the idea has zero merit. There are architectures which do a better job at keeping the interiors cool, and incentives could be set up to favor those designs. But such designs are also usually bone-cold in the winter, and you see energy usage pendulum-swing back to high in other parts of the year. Plus, locales with hot weather typically have local architectures with these kinds of "natural cooling" features anyway, so it's usually not anything new. There's a reason why I think calls to reduce air conditioning to be anti-development, and it's because I happen to live in one of said climates, and there's no way I'd get anything done without air conditioning. Unless we want to keep the underdeveloped regions of the world in poverty, increased demand for air conditioning is simply inevitable.

redwall_hp 7y ago

If electric cars become more popular, they're going to dwarf any other household use anyway. A Tesla's batteries already hold more energy than the average household uses in a weekend.

wumms 7y ago
I'd estimate a driving range with the electricity consumption of an average 4-person household (4000 kWh/year in Germany) of at least 20k km (@ 20 kWh/100 km). So that would roughly double the household use. Add another 4000 kwh for heating around 50-150 m² (90-25 kWh/m² per year for a modern home in Germany). In Germany you can use about 1.000 kWh/kWp per year from the sun, so one would need to install 60 m² of panels @ 20% efficiency for that. The main problem is storage for the winter - or where am I wrong?

notacoward 7y ago

> The answer is not to try to stop development "Stop development" is a bit of an alarmist phrase. Few want that. Also, reducing demand in specific areas is still beneficial even if overall demand continues to increase. There's no reason not to address both demand and supply.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
leereeves 7y ago
How do you propose to "address demand"?
- notacoward 7y ago
  Tough one. Let me think a moment. Hey, didn't I just read an article about how air conditioning represented a significant amount of unnecessary energy use? Crazy idea: let's reduce that. While we're at it, maybe we could also do things to reduce the number of cars on the road, or increase efficiency. We could build stuff using materials and processes that are less energy-intensive. There are a hundred other ways we could reduce the number of kWh used per day, separately from changing how those kWh are generated.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - solatic 7y ago
    > Crazy idea: let's reduce that. If you lived in a hot climate (like India, which is one of the countries TFA referred to as a source of high future demand), then you'd understand just how crazy of an idea that is. (side note: your profile links to a site with a bio claiming that you live in Massachusetts. I rest my case.) Look, it's not that the idea has zero merit. There are architectures which do a better job at keeping the interiors cool, and incentives could be set up to favor those designs. But such designs are also usually bone-cold in the winter, and you see energy usage pendulum-swing back to high in other parts of the year. Plus, locales with hot weather typically have local architectures with these kinds of "natural cooling" features anyway, so it's usually not anything new. There's a reason why I think calls to reduce air conditioning to be anti-development, and it's because I happen to live in one of said climates, and there's no way I'd get anything done without air conditioning. Unless we want to keep the underdeveloped regions of the world in poverty, increased demand for air conditioning is simply inevitable.