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Heat is many times more expensive than air conditioning expecially in temperate climates too cold for heat pumps during winter. It's one scenario where global w
by nullwasamistake 7y ago
Heat is many times more expensive than air conditioning expecially in temperate climates too cold for heat pumps during winter. It's one scenario where global warming will actually decrease energy usage.
- Nasrudith 7y agoWell it is also political/rhetorical to some degree. Air conditioning is energy inefficient while heating technically starts with a 100% conversion efficiency. You also can't say 'just don't use heat' without looking idiotic and out of touch. Meanwhile air conditioning is considered a luxury even if lack of it also results in people dying - both are of course on a spectrum in terms of necessity depending on circumstances.
- Baeocystin 7y ago> Air conditioning is energy inefficient while heating technically starts with a 100% conversion efficiency. This is a common misconception- electrically resistive heat generation is not the most efficient way to heat a room with electricity. Rather, you can move about two to three times more heat per unit energy using a heat pump than you can with simple resistive heating. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_pump https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_pump
- inimino 7y agoNothing about the existence of heat pumps makes "100 conversion efficiency" a misconception.
- lightedman 7y agoThermodynamics, specifically the second law, certainly makes it so. Some of the electronics utilize the energy and thus work is performed, and not all energy is wasted out as heat, nor is all utilized energy perfectly converted into heat.
- nullwasamistake 7y agoIt is. Heat pumps don't create heat, they move it from one side to the other. You can move 3-7x as much heat as the energy it takes to create it
- zubiaur 7y agoEfficiency = Work out/energy in ;) Resistive heating is indeed 100% efficient. There are better ways to heat up things tough.
- hokkos 7y agoHeat pump is 300% to 700% efficient then.
- dogma1138 7y agoHeat pumps are the most effective way of cooling or heating something as long as you have good insulation and the temperature range is within the effective range in which the pump can operate. This is why you get over 100% efficiency in terms of work vs output. Say you have a 100% efficient heater it means for every watt you put in a watt of heat is released to the environment. A heat pump doesn’t releases anything it moves it from one side to another so for one watt of energy that it takes to operate a heat pump you can move up to 10 watts worth of heat (some pumps can be even more efficient than this) form one side to another.
- asdfionio1234 7y agoI'm no expert, but I think AC is generally far in excess of 100% efficient. The relevant number is the SEER rating, which is the ratio between the rate of cooling and the power draw. Typical SEER ratios are 10 or higher, for an efficiency in excess of 1000%. https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/air-conditioner-efficiency-d_442.html https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/air-conditioner-efficienc...
- nullwasamistake 7y agoIt is. Because air conditioning moves heat rather than creating cold.
- asdfionio1234 7y agoWhich means it's also a 1000% efficient heater for the outside, right?
- TravHatesMe 7y agoTo play devil's advocate / ask some questions: > you also can't say 'just don't use heat' without looking idiotic Can't you put on a sweater to minimize your energy footprint? > air conditioning is considered a luxury Isn't air conditioning common even in developing countries? Perhaps it is luxurious to cool your environment, but to what extent is it a luxury? > even if lack of it also results in people dying Are people dying from lack of air conditioning? Will people die without it? I find it is difficult to argue causation of death due to lack of a luxury
- hokkos 7y agoFrom 50,000 to 70,000 deaths from the 2003 European heat wave https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_European_heat_wave https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_European_heat_wave
- nullwasamistake 7y ago> Air conditioning is energy inefficient while heating technically starts with a 100% conversion efficiency. This is a common misconception. AC is far above 100% efficiency because it moves heat rather than creating it. Maintaining a 30 degree temperature difference (say 40->70F) using traditional heat is far more energy demanding than air conditioning from 100->70F. The difference is big enough that HVAC costs in a scorching desert climate like Dubai are lower than much of northern Europe. Heat pump based heating moves heat like AC, but efficiency drops the greater the temperature difference between inside and outside. Most cold climates are too cold for heat pumps to work for much of the year. On the other hand even the hottest climates don't have a temperate Delta of more than 40F inside to outside on the hottest days. So air conditioning is still in the efficient heat pump operating band.
- lotsofpulp 7y agoHeat via natural gas is far cheaper than air conditioning via electricity in all parts of the US, as far as I’m aware. And cheaper by a wide margin. Electricity costs due to AC are typically at least 3x more in the summer than gas costs due to heating. Edit: I shouldn’t have written all parts of the US, but wherever you’re trying to bring temperatures down just as much as you’re trying to bring them up in winter.
- rbritton 7y agoDepends on the temperature differential between the outside air and the climate controlled environment. Here, in eastern Washington, winter costs me a lot more. Using the shoulder season as a baseline, summer adds x and winter adds 3x.
- lotsofpulp 7y agoTrue, I should have written the cost of moving the temps up using gas heat is cheaper than the cost of moving temps / humidity down using electric AC.
- jedberg 7y agoI have gas heat and electric a/c and my bill is significantly higher in winter. I live near San Jose, which can reach the 90s in summer and the 40s in winter.
- lotsofpulp 7y agoI should have clarified that I meant in locales where you might need to cool just as much as you heat, and probably also applies to places with higher humidity than west coast, since there is more need to use AC when it’s more humid.
- distances 7y ago32C (90F) doesn't necessarily need AC yet though? At least if the nights are clearly cooler, so that the windows can be shaded at daytime and opened at night. In an old stone house this can work still at over 40C (104F), depending a lot on the general shading etc of course.
- your-nanny 7y agoyet, population density in tropical regions might mean that the impact of cooling I more important
- NeedMoreTea 7y agoThere's very few places too cold for heat pumps.
- seanwilson 7y ago> It's one scenario where global warming will actually decrease energy usage. Doesn't climate change lead to extreme temperatures in both directions though?
- rohit2412 7y agoDo ACs in Delhi turn on only when it crosses 50 Celsius and do heating only starts in New York during polar vortex storms?
- nullwasamistake 7y agoThe temperature delta will be less since most of the earth is "cold" relative to human preference. We're one of the least cold tolerant species without artificial clothing. Pretty much evolved for the tropics
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- Oletros 7y agoBut you can use other energy sources apart from electricity to heat a household
- fulafel 7y agoTechnically true for cooling as well, thete exist gas powered AC systems (and fridges etc). You could slso use mechanical sources such as water mill or windmill to power the compressor but there probably aren't commercial systems on the market.
- jsilence 7y agoAu contraire! Cooling is much more difficult than heating (the same number of degrees obviously) because of the waste heat of the device itself. The relevant technical term is exergy loss stream.